Today we’re interviewing Nicole Kimberling, Editor of Blind Eye Books. Blind Eye Books operates out of Bellingham, Washington and has been in operation since 2007. Dawn C. Kimberling is the
publisher of Blind Eye Books and the company has 1 full time employee and four authors under contract. In addition to being a publisher, Dawn is an accomplished and talented artist and just a few weeks ago her cover for Wicked Gentlemen was judged by me as the 3rd best book cover on this blog over the past year. OK I’m not an artist or a real judge but the readers and regulars on the blog agreed with me.
Nicole is the first publisher to be interviewed in a new series where I ask questions of 4 publishers – 2 print and 2 electronic – about the industry. For example, what are the differences, other than the obvious, if an author is published in print or electronically? What should a writer NOT do if he or she wants to be published in either medium?
The print and ebook markets are separate and distinct in terms of revenues and marketing strategies. Book Industry Trends 2008 reported that print publishers sold 3.13 billion books in 2007 with net revenues of $US 37.3 billion.
According to a recent Random House survey here 82% of readers prefer to curl up with a print book, (85% women and 79% men) compared to only 11% who said they were comfortable reading books using other formats (wonder what happened to the other 7% ?) 🙂 You might find this surprising because it has been demonstrated that an overwhelming majority of female readers read M/M romances and erotica on their laptops or ereaders, but that’s another interview.
There are obviously differences in contract terms between the two media and among different companies in the same medium but we’re not going to talk about money since contract terms are between the individual author and publisher. What we will try to find out from the publishers is how writers can increase their chances of getting published and continue to sell their books, and it may not be entirely related to their manuscripts. Also, we’ll try to get the publishers’ take on how small publishing houses are making it in the very competitive business of selling books to extremely discerning buyers.
*************
Nicole thank you for agreeing to be interviewed. Can you tell the readers what types of fiction you publish at Blind Eye Books and what exactly is spec fiction? What do you consider to be Blind Eye’s niche market in terms of readers?
Speculative fiction can loosely be put into the categories science fiction, fantasy and horror–that is fiction that has an unreal, magical, supernatural or futuristic element. Paranormal or futuristic
romance can qualify in this category, so long as the speculative element is well thought out and believable. Mainly, the speculative element of a story should add a dimension to the story other than just setting. At BEB we publish speculative fiction with gay or lesbian protagonists. I should mention, though, that we don’t publish horror because I don’t have any taste for it and therefore wouldn’t be a particularly good editor of it. I’d say our main readership generally include readers of m/m romance fiction, gay and lesbian readers of science fiction and fantasy and assorted allies who enjoy character-driven stories.
I was really impressed as a reader by the quality of the books put out by your company as regards the writers, content as well as the appearance (look and feel) of the books. How do you ensure such strict quality control of your product?
Why thank you! We do try. Our general philosophy is that we try to make every book the best we can possibly make it. That starts with choosing manuscripts with tremendous potential and authors who are willing to take the extra time to make their story as good as it can possibly be. Rewrites aren’t exactly mandatory at Blind Eye, but no one has ever submitted a story that did not undergo at least one revision. The books themselves are treated like art objects. We like them to be cherishable. Cover art and design is a particular focus of ours, since the publisher, Dawn Kimberling is a professional artist. We spent a lot of time feeling different papers, looking at different cover finishes, and different typestyles to find ones we found lovely.
What would you say are some of the major challenges facing small publishers today, apart from the economy? How do these challenges affect the authors and the readers?
It doesn’t matter if it’s a good economy or a bad economy, the economics of print books are always difficult, especially if you’re a niche market. Margins are simply not very high. Authors are affected because there’s only so much money available and that means only a certain number of books will be made. But apart from monetary issues, for print publishers, distribution is always a challenge. You’d be surprised at the process for getting books into large chain bookstores like Barnes & Noble or Borders. Buyers for those stores need to have covers and information available 12-18 months in advance to even be considered for placement. That’s a big shock for authors coming from the ebook scene where a book can go from proposal to being on sale in four months or less.
I’m not sure there are any challenges for readers. Readers run the business, really. If readers want a product enough to vote for it with their hard earned dollars, they’ll get it.
What, in your opinion, are the major differences/advantages/disadvantages for epub or print authors? Are there differences?
Well, at the moment, traditional print has more prestige than epublishing does. Most major literary awards will not consider ebook submissions, but that will probably change over time. Another advantage of print publishing is that a print book exists as an object in the world. It can be picked up in a used bookstore or handed around a circle of friends. Essentially it can be shared without much loss to the author whereas an ebook, being infinitely replicable, can lose its value pretty fast if it’s shared indiscriminately. The economics of epublishing means that the majority of books made exclusively to be ebooks are shorter and have a much faster turn around. They’re created with the idea of immediate gratification in mind. This doesn’t mean that they can’t be good, it means that many of them could have been great if only slightly more time had been spent developing the ideas contained therein.
With the greater monetary investment of traditional print books, we have a vested interest in taking much more time to make sure the book is the best it can possibly be since it’s more expensive to produce and once it’s printed, can’t easily be changed. Also, because they’re much cheaper to produce, ebooks have the advantage of being able to be much more diverse than traditional print books. There can be more kinds of stories and characters because a manuscript can still be considered viable even if the publisher knows it will only sell to, say, 150 people. (To give some perspective here, mass market paperback books are produced in the tens of thousands in order to keep the cover price low.) Note: I do write ebooks for Loose-id so, even though Blind Eye Books doesn’t produce ebooks at the moment, I have some idea how the ebook process works, at least from the author’s side.
As a follow-up to your answer above, is Blind Eye contemplating producing ebooks at a future date?
We may have a project in the works, but it’s too soon to talk about the details. If we did release ebooks, I think they would be made available through a distributor like Fictionwise or allromance ebooks since no one working for Blind Eye has the web design skills to create all that complicated shopping cart stuff the big ebook sites have.
With the number of small publishers going out of business, (both epublishers and print) or being taken over by larger companies, how can a writer protect herself or himself when their books are no longer available for purchase by the readers and a valuable source of income is lost through no fault of her/his own?
The only thing you can do is know your contract. Make sure that you know when the rights revert to you and then make every effort to resell the story.
As a publisher, What is your best advice to writers on how to compete and be successful in this business?
Wow. What a tough question. I suppose I would say that most writers that I know personally who get all their income from writing are very flexible and diversified. They write fiction they want to write in addition to purely commercial fiction, non-fiction, scripts, articles, textbooks, stereo instructions–whatever it takes. Diversify.
What is the absolutely worse thing that a writer can do to screw up his or her chances of being signed with your company?
Jeez, I don’t know. I guess not sending me a book would eliminate their chances of being signed completely. Other than that I suppose the answer would be failing to grasp that although we have published books with explicit content, we are not an erotica publisher. For us a story must be more than a good set up for hot sex. There must be an idea in the story somewhere. Sex is actually optional, as far as I’m concerned.
What should writers/potential writers consider before submitting their manuscripts to your company?
The only thing I would suggest is that writers consider whether or not their stories are gay-positive, because we are an LGBT press, not an M/M press. Hateful or clueless depictions of the homosexual experience are not welcome.
What, in your opinion, are the “hot buttons” that help to sell erotic books – is it kink? The number of sex scenes per book? The heat in the sex scenes? A good plot? Great characters? In your experience, are readers still turned on by a good story with great characters that move them? With increased competition, how does a writer gain an advantage in this market?
As I said, we aren’t specifically an erotica publisher, but I do read and write within the genre. In my experience readers of romantic fiction of any sort are character-based readers. An author can gain an advantage by creating singular and likable characters. But as a general editor I would caution any author against looking for a magic bullet that will increase sales. Rather I would suggest that the author try to create exactly the story that she would like to read. Being true to yourself is the only sure way to create a singular and authentic voice.
How important is marketing in the business of selling books and what do you, as the publisher, think is the writer’s responsibility in this area? Since most writers have no marketing or promotional expertise how can they ensure that their stories get attention and reach their target audience? It appears that a well written book with a great plot and characters is no longer enough to ensure excellent sales. Does your company help your writers to market their books to readers?
Perhaps it’s naive of me, but I do think that a good book will out, regardless of competition, saturation or anything else. If a book has that special spark, it will advertise itself in a viral fashion through word of mouth. Now, most books do not go viral, but each still has its own audience. A publisher can try to find that special group of people who love a book or an author, but an author has to try to find them too because a publisher has many authors and only so many hours in the day. These days finding one’s audience is easier, because of bloggers and online communities and google alerts and so forth.
Our company actively markets our books, through advertising and through submitting promotional copies to various awards and reviewers. We also attend conventions to promote our line. But we get a lot of ideas about where to send those promo copies from the authors themselves because each author has different social circles, friends, connections and core readers. That’s not something that a publisher can know without the author’s input.
How important are the publishers’ “submission guidelines” and what are the penalties for not following them? *g*
Flouting submission guidelines can result in simple annoyance to immediate disqualification of the submitted item, to an author being blacklisted for life. Since you don’t know which of the three consequences will occur, it’s best to just follow the guidelines. If you’re not sure whether or not you qualify for an exemption for some reason, write and ask. Few editors are so petty that they’ll hate you forever for asking a question.
Erotic romance is growing by leaps and bounds in terms of readership and numbers of books published (both ebooks and print), yet it’s a very insignificant portion of the lucrative publishing business – less than 3%. This is probably not a fair question since you’re very new to the game but do you have any thoughts on how increased market penetration for this genre can be achieved in the short term to gain increased readership?
Well, I don’t know that I would call the publishing business “lucrative.” Not when compared with, for example, the insurance business. I’ll wager the average insurance agent way out-earns the average author. One thing to consider in terms of market penetration of any genre is that readers read what they want to read, regardless of what publishers publish or authors write. M/M romance is a good example of a reader-led incursion into publishing decision-making territory. Before readers began to leave traditional romance publishers to seek out M/M romance no one was even considering starting an M/M line. Now even large publishers are taking note of the trend.
Authors cannot make readers read their books, they can only make readers aware of their books in a way that makes them want to try to read them. That’s what publicity is all about. One thing to remember, too, about erotic material is that it’s not for every reader. It is not, for example, for young readers. It’s also not for readers who are offended or simply bored by it. The market has natural parameters that aren’t going to be overcome by increased publicity. And in the case of erotica, inappropriate publicity can actually be offensive. It’s a fine line.
Controversial topics (priests involved in homosexual relationships; twincest (industry terminology)) – as a publisher what is the view of your company about releasing books with these topics as the main theme? Should you go there?
I have nothing against controversial topics so long as the book addresses them seriously and in a non-exploitative fashion. Obviously our first book, Wicked Gentlemen, features a character who is a priest who is also in a homosexual relationship.
I’m not sure an author could sell me on “twincest”… Particularly not if she referred to the relationship in that fashion, since it would give away the author’s lack of serious introspection about the relationship of the twins in question. I like it when authors don’t strip away all humanity in order to reduce their characters to a fetish. If I had a manuscript containing “twincest” I’d prefer an author to give real time to illustrating the emotional and social toll that being in love with your own twin would take. Not to mention the psychological damage being in a relationship like that would inflict over time. I would want the author to address issues such as: if you were truly in love with your twin, wouldn’t you break up with them in order to save them from spending his or her life as a social pariah? If your twin refused to end the relationship, what then? What about your Mom? Wouldn’t she be upset (or even sickened) by you and your twin? Why in the world can’t you and your twin just date other people? That’s where the real drama would be in a “twincest” story, I think.
Whenever I ask this question I get a different, very clever, answer so of course I would like your take on it. What would an author have to do to make enough money in the industry to live comfortably, without a second or third job (of course there are degrees of “comfort”) and without a blockbuster? *g*
When I was at the Clarion Workshop, one of the visiting authors was talking about how someone had figured out exactly how many books a mid-list author had to have simultaneously in print to make forty thousand dollars a year. I seem to recall this number was nineteen. So I’m going to say “write 19 books real fast.” Marrying well, inheriting property and adjusting your poverty threshold downward are also good ways to have enough money to be comfortable without a second job. Maybe you thought forty thousand was comfortable but you only earn twelve thousand? Lower your expectations. Problem solved!
Thank you so much Nikki! I think readers will be excited to learn that Blind Eye Books may be considering making some of its novels available in ebook format in the future.
This interview provided an insider’s view of the print industry from the perspective of the publisher. I hope that you, the readers as well as authors gained a lot of new information; I certainly did. WOW! 19 books to make $40,000 a year? I’m not giving up my day job to become an author! Since this is the first interview with publishers I would be interested in feedback from both authors and readers, either by commenting on the blog or by email to me at jessewave@gmail.com. You still have time to have your say regarding what questions you would like the next publisher to answer, as that interview probably won’t be posted for another 2 months. I should also apologise to Nikki because it wasn’t until I had sent off the questions that I realized although some of the books published by Blind Eye had erotic content, it was not a publisher of erotic books. So Nikki mea culpa.
I hope Nikki will return to be interviewed in her capacity as an author, in my continuing series Author of the Week, when she’ll tell us about her books and we get some insight into the REAL Nicole Kimberling and what she does for fun. (Do publisher/authors have time for fun?) *g* Regardless, I’ll be having fun with her! I’ll be negotiating my “interview” contract with Nikki soon.
Nikki will answer your “publishing” (or any other questions) for a small fee. 🙂 Did you know that she uses rabbit ears for television reception in this high tech world? :DDD
And thank you very much, Wave! I’d love to come back as an author sometime.
That’s a wrap.
Blind Eye Books contact information
Did you know that she uses rabbit ears for television reception in this high tech world?
Not for much longer. Everything has already switched to digital here in Hawaii, and the mainland will do the same shortly. Did I just assume she was in the US? Because where else would someone wanna live? Is *cold* farther north.
*blinks at Tangle Girls cover* Can we explore that finger thing more? No? Oh well.
Nikki lives in Washington State. She probably bought a new television by now – I found out about the rabbit ears several months ago.
Did you have a question re the cover for Tangle Girls? *g*
Please note that Nikki lives on the US West Coast and therefore won’t be up for several hours. You can leave your comments on the blog and she will respond as soon as she has some shuteye and coffee.
True. Is not even 4am Pacific time. Not all of us are up reading and watching MSNBC at…holy gawd, it’s 1:50am? I missed lunch! brb.
As a reader I tend to be oblivious to all that other stuff that happens before a book gets into my hot little hands. That 19 books to make a decent living does seem rather depressing from an author’s point of view. But not everyone can be JK Rowling I guess. Great interview and I learned a lot.
Emmy
She warned me that she’s not going to be awake until probably noon our time after she has had gallons of coffee. 🙂
Tam
I developed this series because I thought it would be a gut check for aspiring authors to know what to expect when they’re thinking of writing the next great novel. I had to do a lot of research for – boy this shit is hard work *g* but I learned a whole lot too!
:boy this shit is hard work”
Wave…your language is devolving. Must be bad influences.
Wave…your language is devolving
OK funny person. Show yourself and not hide under the cloak of anonymity. I only used one semi bad word.
Great interview, Wave.
Thank you, Nikki, for answering Wave’s questions.
I was wondering if you could give a general time line from when a book gets contracted to when an author could reasonably expect it released. I understand that there are always extentuating circumstances, but I was just looking for a loose time line…lol.
Thanks and I love the cover for Wicked Gentlemen. Adding it to my to buy list.
I thought of another question…lol.
Would Blind Eye Books ever consider putting a story into print that’s already been released as an ebook? (as long as the author still has the print rights to the book)
Why in the world can’t you and your twin just date other people?
Took me a few moments to recover enough to finish reading. Intelligent and insightful commentary on the wacky world that is publishing — as per usual.
By the way, I don’t think I’ve ever examined and compared the BEB covers before. They really are wonderful. I like the Tangle Girls especially.
Great interview. I learned a lot about the publishing side of books that I wasn’t aware of, being just a reader.
Wow, 19 books for $40,000 a year, I was surprised at that. I had no idea it would take so many books. Definitely the day job would be a necessity for most authors.
Lily 🙂
Thanks TA
I appreciate the kind words. As I mentioned earlier, Nikki lives on the West Coast so she’ll probably not be on the blog until around NOON eastern time when I’m sure she’ll be happy to answer your questions.
Btw Ginn Hale, author of Wicked Gentlemen, will be interviewed on the blog next Wednesday and I posted a review of the book on the blog; here’s the link
http://tinyurl.com/8rtyda
Hey Josh
You’re up early or didn’t go to sleep – maybe you’re just rolling in from one of the inaugural balls? Haven’t read any twincest books? It’s the new, new thing 🙂
Aren’t those covers wonderful? My favourite is still the one for Wicked Gentlemen.
Hi Lily
Thank you. One of the reasons I do these interviews is to bring new information to the readers. I think the $40,000 is probably royalty payments, but I’m sure that Nikki will clarify her comment.
There isn’t much that puts me in squee mode (aside from having a president who’s not only in possession of a wonderful mind and heart but also a great ass). This publisher and many of its authors, though, have made me a squee-er for real.
Anybody who hasn’t yet read a Blind Eye publication is missing out on something special.
Thorough, thoughtful interview, Wave. The only thing I’m left wondering is if BEB still insists on hard-copy submissions. As I recall, they make an exception for overseas writers … but what about domestic authors stuck with sucko Dell printers that go through overpriced cartridges the way my dogs hoover up people food? (Was that a loaded question or what?)
Thanks for doing the interview Wave, and all the research too. 🙂
Wicked Gentlemen was one of my (two) breakout books for 2008, so very much looking forward to the Ginn Hale interview.
Any news on a sequel to WG?
Hi KZ
Not sure your new President’s wife would appreciate comments about his ass 🙂
Thanks for coming by and for the kind words. I think Nikki will be happy about your comments regarding the quality of their books. I have to find out if she’s awake as yet b/c she did promise to come by. I’m sure that when she gets here she’ll answer your burning question and try to save you some $ *g*
T.A. Chase said:
I was wondering if you could give a general time line from when a book gets contracted to when an author could reasonably expect it released. I understand that there are always extentuating circumstances, but I was just looking for a loose time line…lol.
Thanks and I love the cover for Wicked Gentlemen. Adding it to my to buy list.
NK said: Thank you T.A. I loved that cover too–especially the line quality of the pencil design. But to your question: At Blind Eye we can go from a finished, proofread manuscript to a printed copy in about four months. However, that’s just the time it takes to manufacture a book. To effectively promote a book to large chain stores the publisher needs to start promoting about a year and a half in advance–I’m talking about getting into Publisher’s Weekly and stuff like that. So if you sold a first novel book to a major house it would take between one and a half and two years, generally.(At least that’s what my sources are saying at the moment.)
Tam said: That 19 books to make a decent living does seem rather depressing from an author’s point of view.
NK: That’s why I would encourage new writers to try not to focus too heavily on thoughts of trying to make a living. Rather, focus on writing the best story that you possibly can. And choose a day job that you like and because you’ll probably be working it for a while. I personally chose professional cooking and it has given me more material than I could possibly ever have time to write.
Wave: Nikki lives in Washington State. She probably bought a new television by now –
NK- Guess again. I just pick up Canadian TV so I have another year till I have to hang up the rabbit ears.
T.A. said: Would Blind Eye Books ever consider putting a story into print that’s already been released as an ebook? (as long as the author still has the print rights to the book)
NK: I will consider everything. But to be honest, the chances are slim. First, most ebooks are too short to be economical to print. 70K is the lower limit on print MS for us. Second, if a book is already available in digital form and has been for some time, probably most people who want to read it have already read it.
And, you know, as an editor I kind of want to believe that I’m your special girl–your first choice.
So I guess I’d suggest sending me a fresh new MS first if you’re serious about wanting to be a Blind Eye author.
Hey I just wanted to say thanks to Jessewave and Nicole for doing this interview. It was really interesting to hear about publishing from the side of the publisher.
I’m looking forward to more!
J.L said: By the way, I don’t think I’ve ever examined and compared the BEB covers before. They really are wonderful. I like the Tangle Girls especially.
NK: Thanks! That one is by Sam Dawson. He does web design and theater posters and also, weirdly, labels for a local line of pickles. He’s an awesome guy.
So far the designs I’ve seen for your BEB cover fall within that yellow/green/blue range. Of course, it would help the illustrator to have a small scrap of prose to help define the tone.
Love,
Your Editor
KZ said: . but what about domestic authors stuck with sucko Dell printers that go through overpriced cartridges the way my dogs hoover up people food? (Was that a loaded question or what?)
NK said: Loaded indeed. Well, here’s why I don’t accept email subs from domestic authors: I don’t want to get all that email. I already have a lot of stuff to filter through. But considering the cost of printing MS, I have decided to start accepting snail mail queries. You can now send a query letter via regular mail.
And incidentally, I don’t actually like query letters much because I really want to see a writer’s actual prose. I would suggest that if you send me one, you include an excerpt of 2 or 3 pages of your MS.
Wave,
Great post! I really did learn a lot. Its been been one of your most informative posts ;-D.
Nikki, I actually have 2 questions..1. How much is the typical publishing advance does amount to for a first-time author? (I know that sometimes publishers really dont like giving out a number just a ball park figure would be nice) ;-P
2. Blind Eye specializes in speculative fiction..Does that also include steampunk?
LesleyW: Any news on a sequel to WG?
NK: Ginn Hale is going to address that in her interview next week, so I’ll let her tell you about it.
Ozakie said: 1. How much is the typical publishing advance does amount to for a first-time author? (I know that sometimes publishers really dont like giving out a number just a ball park figure would be nice) ;-P
NK said: There’s really no such thing as a ballpark figure because the advance changes dramatically depending on the size of the publisher, the presumed sales potential of the book, distribution etc. At Blind Eye our advances go from zero to 1000, heavily favoring the zero end of the spectrum. Other friends of mine who have sold books to larger houses have received advances between 1500 and three grand.
Nikki
Of course, it would help the illustrator to have a small scrap of prose to help define the tone.
Were you kicking Josh’s ass a moment ago?
Has he been a recalcitrant child in not sending you what he’s supposed to? *g*
Still with the rabbit ears eh? You watch Canadian television and I watch US television – is there something wrong with this picture?
Lesley
Thanks for the kind words on the interview. Research is a bitch 🙂
As to whether there will be a sequel to WG – come back next week when Ginn is interviewed.
Ginn
Thank you. Looking forward to your answers.
Ozakie said: Blind Eye specializes in speculative fiction..Does that also include steampunk?
NK said: In a word, yes.
Wave said: Were you kicking Josh’s ass a moment ago?
Has he been a recalcitrant child in not sending you what he’s supposed to? *g*
NK said: No, not at all. He’s not supposed to send me any prose scraps for a couple of weeks. I was merely offering my love and encouragement.
Really great interview. And from the POV of a BEB author, I have to say that Nikki is a really great editor to work with. She kicks your ass and it hurts, but when its done you have a much better, tighter story every time.
Nikki: What kind of MS do you close your eyes and hope will arrive in the mail one day? What’s your personal, favorite kind of story?
I’m still limping from the last time Nicole lovingly encouraged me. *g*
Oh, don’t be such a baby. There’s hardly any swelling any more and the doctor said you’ll be just fine… eventually.
AA: Really great interview. And from the POV of a BEB author, I have to say that Nikki is a really great editor to work with. She kicks your ass and it hurts, but when its done you have a much better, tighter story every time.
NK: Aw… You’re so sweet!
And from the POV of a BEB author, I have to say that Nikki is a really great editor to work with. She kicks your ass and it hurts, but when its done you have a much better, tighter story every time.
But do you have a much better tighter ass?
AA: What kind of MS do you close your eyes and hope will arrive in the mail one day? What’s your personal, favorite kind of story?
NK: I crave novelty, I think. I’m the sort of person who buys mysterious street food from people who don’t speak English as long as it smells good (and sometimes even if it doesn’t.) I want to be surprised and delighted by things that fall outside of the average parameters. I want stories to challenge some assumption. And I think this is reflected in my BEB choices.
Wicked Gentlemen’s structure, 2 linked novellas, made it fairly unpublishable as a mainstream novel. But the story was amazing! I could not tear myself away from Belimai and Harper.
The Archer’s Heart, being modeled after an Indian epic story, was both too long and too politically complicated to believe and on top of that, it took place in a non-western setting. Foreign all around, and yet I was totally fascinated by the very foreign nature of it.
I don’t know what Josh Lanyon will write for me but I know that whatever it is, it won’t be the same old flavor as everything else I see. It will be distinct and unmistakably “Lanyon.”
So I guess that’s something I want: strong, individual voices.
My perfect MS would have an interesting and unique setting. It would have a story that makes logical sense, but is still surprising. It would have characters who I can respect. I am a huge fan of romantic stories, but I confess I am deeply bored by stories that are nothing but unresolved sexual tension. Or stories of sexual tension that gets resolved over and over again with no greater forward movement.
So… that’s more than a nutshell, but I think it’s accurate.
In response to Jessewave’s “but do you have a much tighter ass?” I have to say that I have no ass whatso ever, but I do have a book that I love! And I have my bandages to keep me warm. *g*
Oh, Wave–
I was thinking about Tam’s comments about being discouraged by the monetary prospects in writing. And now that I think about this, I realized that this is a question you should have asked me, but were too polite: How do you support yourself?
Because if the purpose of this blog series is to be a reality check, then that’s a perfectly valid question, rude though it might be.
So I’m just going to answer it anyway. I support myself by being a professional line cook. That means that for three nights a week I go battle the hungry masses in a hot, crowded kitchen full of snowboarders and musicians, drunks and disasters. I Love My Job. (Really, I do.) This gets me the lion’s share of my cash.
Two of the other four days I edit and manage Blind Eye Books. For this I am paid nothing but the appreciating of my beloved wife and an occasional honorarium. I think last year (as editor) I made about 600 from Blind Eye Books.
The remaining two days are spent on my own writing. This is where I get the rest of my income: occasional manuscript sales to various publications and venues, most recently, Loose Id.
My income does not even approach 40K and never has. However, I am in the very unique position of loving everything I do so I think what aspiring writers might have to come to grips with is that the creative life requires hard choices to be made. Do you want time to perfect your work or do you want Costa Rican vacations and medical insurance? Most of the time you don’t get both so if you can’t live without the beaches and regular visits to the doctor choose a line of work that gets you those things and then write in your spare time. Or marry somebody with a trust fund. That works too.
I’m not trying to depress anybody here, I’m trying to set a reasonable expectation so that a writer doesn’t feel she’s falling behind the rest of the pack and get discouraged because she doesn’t make much money. Very few people make a ton of cash in this industry. What you can hope for and what you can control is your own artistic satisfaction. And if that gets you a few loyal readers your ahead of the game.
Whenever I read interviews like this it makes me, as a reader, appreciate the hard yards involved by all in the publishing industry, particularly the authors, to see their work come to fruition. A teriffic post. Thanks Nikki and Wave.
I do have a couple of questions (well more than a few so feel free not to answer if I’m being too nosy).
How many ms does BEB receive (maybe per month)? Of those, how many make the grade? How many books do BEB aim to publish per year? Also, in Australia many niche publishers are now going offshore (Hong Kong and China) to print, is that similar to what is happening in the US?
Nikki
I thought that if you wanted to share this information that you would but I didn’t think it was appropriate for me to ask. I was aware that you worked nights because you told me a few days ago but I felt it was up to you to volunteer what you did.
Thank you for bringing some reality to the writing game which is all I wanted when I started this series. I get a lot of emails from aspiring writers or see their posts on the blog especially when I interview authors, regarding how to make it in the biz and make money at it.
I am aware that most writers have to support their writing habit and quite a few authors have told me what they do to support themselves. A few of them have volunteered this information during their interviews, they call their regular jobs the EDJ “evil day jobs.” As an example, James Buchanan said in his interview that his day job is a lawyer and he writes to be able to go on vacations.
I think, from my minimal experience with writers, that you have to really love writing to do it for money, because the money is not that much and is in most cases just supplemental income. There are very few authors that I have dealt with who I can say are full time writers – Sean Michael is one, Josh Lanyon I believe is another and there are a few others but only a few.
What I’m trying to determine is which is better in terms of return on investment – the author’s time and skill. On the other hand print publishing is more prestigious. I gather from published authors who have been around for sometime, that generally speaking, electronic publishing appears to be more lucrative than print publishing. However, I’ll try to find out from my next interview candidate who will be an electronic publisher. WOW that’s a mouthful.
Kris said: How many ms does BEB receive (maybe per month)?
NK: Most of the time, only one or two because for various reasons authors don’t want to print their stories out. (See comment above regarding the printing of manuscripts.)
Kris said: Of those, how many make the grade?
NK: So far I have not purchased an unsolicited novel-length MS. But I haven’t received many, either.
Kris: How many books do BEB aim to publish per year?
NK: Last year we published three. This year we have one anthology out already, one novel planned from Josh Lanyon and one “Serial ebook Reading Event” that I just confirmed and will be announcing shortly. We may do one more book, but I’m not sure. To some extent, it depends on what kind of MS I get. If I don’t get anything that I like, it’s entirely possible that we might not do any books. The upper limit, for now though, is probably three books in a year. They’re very time consuming.
Kris: Also, in Australia many niche publishers are now going offshore (Hong Kong and China) to print, is that similar to what is happening in the US?
NK: My publisher, Dawn wants to get in on this one, but she can’t be bothered to get a Google ID so I’m going to transcribe her answer. Dawn says,”We take pride in the fact that our books are printed in the United States by printers who are part of the green printing initiative, such as Thompson-Shore.”
So, as you can see, whether or not other publishers are moving their print operations, we wouldn’t be on principle.
(By now I think it’s fairly clear that at Blind Eye Books we do a lot of things “on principle.” *g*)
Thanks Nikki and Dawn for answering my questions – it’s very interesting.
Unfortunately rapidly increasing costs have been driving niche publishers offshore to print their books over the last few years. This is especially the case for where I live in Western Australia which is pretty isolated and freight costs (with petrol prices etc) force prices up.
If I can be cheeky and ask another question – In Australia, some of the niche publishers such as those specialising in Indigenous, local and ‘minority’ works rely on government grants to assist with operational/administrative costs. Is that the case in the US too?
Wave: A few of them have volunteered this information during their interviews, they call their regular jobs the EDJ “evil day jobs.”
Nikki: See, I don’t have the evil day job, so much as the cool night job. Remember the episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets to go work in the bowling alley and he LOVES it? That’s sort of my cooking gig.
Wave: What I’m trying to determine is which is better in terms of return on investment – the author’s time and skill. On the other hand print publishing is more prestigious. I gather from published authors who have been around for sometime, that generally speaking, electronic publishing appears to be more lucrative than print publishing.
Nikki: Oh, what a can of worms you have decided to open, Wave. *g* For a publisher, ebooks are hands-down cheaper, but so infinitely bootleg-able that lost sales become a big issue. What you might not be considering, though, is that you’re not really talking about print vs electronic here. You’re talking about print erotic romance books vs electronic erotic romance books. For a lot of reasons, the preponderance of erotic romance readers want ebooks. This is not necessarily so outside of this genre. However, I do always recommend that if new authors are already writing romance or erotic romance and their goal is to eventually get a New York publisher, writing a few ebooks couldn’t hurt them. They’re much easier to sell than print books and so a new author can get a feel for who their readers might be as well as getting some exposure to the demands of professional writing: blurbs, synopses, pitch letters, deadlines, edits, cover art sheets, line edits, proofreads, publicity and bad reviews.
Kris: Unfortunately rapidly increasing costs have been driving niche publishers offshore to print their books over the last few years. This is especially the case for where I live in Western Australia which is pretty isolated and freight costs (with petrol prices etc) force prices up.
Nikki: Yeah, I hear you. Shipping costs are incredible. Our books are printed in Michigan and shipped to us here in Washinton–around 2000 miles, I think. The shipping costs are almost a quarter of the total cost of manufacture. Plus, I might be wrong, but it seems like there’s not a big paper mill industry in Australia anyway, right? I’m not dissing any body else’s choices. But we have lots of print infrastructure, printers, binders, and book manufacturers in the US. And if we don’t use them… well, you know how that goes.
Kris: If I can be cheeky and ask another question – In Australia, some of the niche publishers such as those specialising in Indigenous, local and ‘minority’ works rely on government grants to assist with operational/administrative costs. Is that the case in the US too?
Nikki: God, I wish! The short answer is a resounding “no.” I believe that in Canada they have the Canada Council, which gives grants for minority arts including small press ventures but not here. Not by a long shot.
About the income thing: Were I to make forty grand a year from writing, I wouldn’t think I’d died and gone to heaven, I’d know it. Even twelve grand a year would perk me up. Many writers likely feel the same way.
What Nikki said about “adjusting your poverty threshold downward” really is the core of the issue. I feel flush when I can afford to buy wild-bird seed. But I feel infinitely more flush (flusher?) when I’ve turned out a single, exceptional paragraph.
It’s all about priorities. Oh, and self-flagellation. (I knew I’d have to pay one way or another for being a lapsed Catholic.)
😉
Nikki
I have a thought (I do get those from time to time) 🙂 Since you’re already getting a Canadian TV feed you can always apply for a grant on the grounds of “Canadian content” which is the buzzword they use here for giving the locals a leg up and sometimes an arm as well as a leg.
You’re lucky to love your other job – a lot of authors don’t and wish they could be full time writers.
Hey, did you notice that I added a cover to the post? The last one? I found it today when I went back to your site.
I should have qualified my comment re earnings. I did mean erotic books since other genres haven’t really penetrated the electronic market.
Last point – I hope that responding to all of these comments is not too much work for you b/c you need some shut eye before leaving for work. When you’re ready to sign off for the night just leave a message on the blog and indicate that you’ll be back tomorrow to answer additional questions, if any. Thanks.
Nikki, you’re right, there is not a large paper mill industry in Australia. My understanding is that there are two major companies which have essentially cornered the market for printing books. Everyone else is struggling.
My experience with grants programs is that they can be a double-edged sword. On the one hand they are excellent for seeding and fostering important social capital activities like the arts, but on the other, some orgs don’t future plan or make sustainable decisions and rely on year-to-year funding. This makes them very vulnerable to changes in government as well as policy and spending.
Cheers again for answering my questions, Nikki. I repeat – it’s very interesting to find out what’s going on elsewhere in the world.
I have to agree with K.Z. Most of us write for the love of writing, not because we’re expecting to strike it rich.
Also it helps to really enjoy eating beans… and on that note I’m off to have a can of garbanzos and work on my next chapter.
Good night all!
What Nikki said about “adjusting your poverty threshold downward” really is the core of the issue. I feel flush when I can afford to buy wild-bird seed
Wild bird seed? Now I know why Josh was chuckling when I teased him about all the money authors make. I suppose if it’s just “vacation money” I do understand the urge to spend all those hours writing. But if it’s “mortgage money” the hours would have to be much longer, consistently. Not so glamorous after all.
Oh, and self-flagellation. (I knew I’d have to pay one way or another for being a lapsed Catholic.) You, too *g*
Wave: Hey, did you notice that I added a cover to the post? The last one? I found it today when I went back to your site.
Nikki: Yeah, I DID notice that. *g*
About Canadian Content: seriously, I wish I could apply for that. I would be all over scouring Nunavut and Newfoundland & Labrador for authentic gay voices.
In fact… "Hey, Nunavut! I know somebody up there must be writing LGBT spec fic! Show me what you got!"
Thank you guys for having me! I’ll come back tomorrow in case anyone else has any more questions.
Nicole Kimberling
*swaying on computer chair* OK, no more reading Wave’s extremely comprehensive interviews with extremely exhaustive answers and equally long and information-filled comments past 1AM when I can’t concentrate for shit. Counting the comments, and the fact I wandered to BDB to check out the Tangle girls book I hadn’t heard about and check the guidelines, and considering the TV blasting nearby (couldn’t be helped) it took me about 3 hours to read everything and write this. Three. *re-sways*
It was incredibly interesting, yet I’m sure I missed tons of stuff. It took me a good hour hour to figure out that MS meant manuscript (it does, doesn’t it?) and I’m still not sure what “speculative fiction” encompasses exactly. I also don’t have the faintest idea what steampunk is. I’ll need to re-read it tomorrow. Yet I didn’t want to stop before I read it all, so it does say how much I enjoyed it 😀
Excellent questions Wave, and very enlightening answers Ms Kimberling. So few of us readers think about the actual publishing process and even less of us know about it. I didn’t think profit margins were that small in the industry. The 19-books-for-a-40 000$-a-year-income thing also racked me. Wow. It does make the fact I’m never going to be a famous author since I don’t have ideas more bearable, though.
I also applaud at BEB’s principles on printing and other things, and your attention to always creating the best book possible, both in content and container 🙂 You achieve great results for both and that makes people want to encourage you. And I had a lot of fun reading your opinion about “twincest”. I remember reading a story in which none of the points you raised was adressed in an even slightly realistic or serious manner and I hated it. Lol. Anyway, great interview. Thank you for your time.
Has the cover art for Turnskin been changed recently? I remember it differently from the flyers I received with one of my purchases.
Mary
I’m very sorry that you were up until all hours again b/c of this blog. I’ll try to post uninteresting interviews in future so that you can just skim everything 🙂
Nikki is thinking of checking out writers from Nunavut in order to qualify for a grant from the Canadian government (we won’t disabuse her of the notion that there may be an Inuit writer or two of GLBT spec fiction there) :DDD I wonder if there is at least one acknowledged GLBT person in Nunavut?
When Nikki wakes up she’ll answer your other questions I’m sure. Thanks for stopping by; you can go to bed now.
Mary, thank you for your wonderful compliments and also thank you for buying books directly from our site, which you must have done in order to get the promo postcard set. I hope that you found out some info on Tangle Girls, but if you didn’t, it contains 5 stories all with lesbian protagonists and features writer Tenea D. Johnson, who you might remember from the Tangle anthology.
Mary said: Has the cover art for Turnskin been changed recently? I remember it differently from the flyers I received with one of my purchases.
Nikki said: Ha! No, but we had two different cover concepts by two different artists and so we decided to print postcards of both just for the fun of it.
Wave: I wonder if there is at least one acknowledged GLBT person in Nunavut?
Nikki: Surely there must be. It’s a big place.
Well, I must away with me for a while, but I’ll stop back by and check in to see if anybody has any burning questions.
Nikki
You complimented Mary for buying directly from your site – what about me? I bought Wicked Gentlemen directly from BEB. Although I must admit that the Turnskin cover on the blog is the only promotional cover that I received.
I don’t think that we’ll be able to find anyone in Nunavut who will admit to being GLBT but maybe in the Yukon or the North West Territories there is someone *g*
I don’t think that we’ll be able to find anyone in Nunavut who will admit to being GLBT
Wave, I’m ashamed. Where have your research skills gone? Maybe buidling that long publisher interview took its toll on you. :-p The Gay and Lesbian Times said it: Gay and lesbian people are eveywhere, even in Nunavut (http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=357) Apparently the LGBT people there fought hard for their rights – I’m not totally sure they got that rights bill passed, I didn’t have time to follow up on the info, but I sure hope they did. There is also a Iqaluit Pride and Friends of Pride association. They hold a Pride picnic every June. They had a whopping 200 attendees in 2005 :-DDDD (http://www.iqaluitpride.ca/aboutus.html)
And guess what, there is a gay Iqaluit section on Matchmakers.com! Of course, there are only two people on it. I suppose it’s only a matter of time before they get together :-DDD (http://gay.matchmaker.com/mm/gay-personals/nunavut-iqaluit.htm)
Nicole, thank you for the information! I found the Turnskin postcard last night (they were so pretty I kept them, tucked inside my copy of Wicked Gentlemen), and it must be the “other” cover, since it’s not the one featured here 😉 I’d like to deserve the credit you give me for buying from your site, but I have to say that Amazon Canada doesn’t sell your books so I didn’t have a choice anyway. However, your prices are so competitive and your shipping charges so low that I was glad to encourage a publisher directly for once. Few LGBT publishers offer print books of your quality. 🙂
Mary
You’re kidding right, about gays in Nunavut? I never thought of researching to see if there were any because the community is so remote. I guess again, “assume” made an ass of just me not you. Thanks for the info. Maybe I should post a link on the blog. 🙂
Stop sucking up – I already complimented Nikki in the interview on the quality of their books. She’s not going to give you a free book.
*sticking out tongue at Wave* Stop throwing accusations at me. I don’t need to suck up to get free books – you know perfectly well I get plenty of those through contests already :-DDD. I just happen to be a naturally gracious person. :-p And sorry, but when I compare Wicked Gentlemen with … OK, I won’t give names (but Wave I know you’ll know who I’m talking about, I told you about it), but suffice to say that some publishers who charge substantially more than BEB fr their books could learn a lot from them about giving their books a professional look.
And nope, I’m perfectly serious about the Nunavut – when you and Nicole started to joke about that, I just had to look. I knew there had to be some kind of LGBT organization there. Don’t forget you’re talking to an almost-journalist here; digging for information is a natural instinct 😀 Amazing what you can find with Google.
Mary said: some publishers who charge substantially more than BEB fr their books could learn a lot from them about giving their books a professional look
Nikki: Part of the reason some other LGBT books cost more than ours is that many of them are POD books, which, by their nature, must cost more per piece than traditionally printed books because they are made one at a time according to an order. At Blind Eye we use the traditional method, meaning that we print a couple thousand copies at once so that the per piece price is lower.
And I wasn’t joking about Nunavut. I kinda want to see what they’ve got. I’m just that way. Curious. 🙂