Whenever I read an M/M romance and the author waxes eloquent about penis size I wonder how much this matters to the readers. Do you really care if a guy is hung like a horse? I reviewed a book a few months ago where the protagonists had giant balls, cock and ass and I asked myself why the author considered this to be important. I can understand why those of you who read porn [not me, not me!!!] love every detail about girth, length, bulging veins, giant heads (the little head, not the big one :-D) etc. etc. but do M/M romance readers get off on this too?
Pompeya_erótica6Some men may want to know exact measurements for this morning, afternoon and evening “delight” to see how they stack up. Many studies have been conducted over the years and I remember reading one in Cosmopolitan magazine several years ago which broke the numbers down from the smallest to the largest and then by race, which was very interesting, but that’s another post. 🙂 In terms of perceptions, is bigger always better? In actual experience, probably not. Here’s a factoid for you from Wiki
When compared to other primates, including large primates such as the gorilla, the male human genitalia are remarkably large. The human penis is both longer and thicker than that of any other primate both in absolute terms and in relative size to the rest of the body. While results vary across studies, the consensus is that the mean human penis is approximately 12.9–15 cm (5.1–5.9 in) in length with a 95% confidence interval of (10.7 cm, 19.1 cm) (or, equivalently, 4.23 in, 7.53 in). The typical girth or circumference is approximately 12.3 cm (4.85 in) when fully erect. The mean penis size is slightly greater than the median size. Contrary to popular belief, there is no scientific relation between penis size and race. (The Cosmo study disputes this last statement.)
Wiki went on to show pictures of flaccid and erect penises which indicated that there are large differences between the two states but I thought that one penis a day (see the one on the left) was about all you could take. 😀 BTW, if you look carefully at the picture it is quite deceptive. My co-author of this post, John, made this comment that I thought I would share –
“I personally haven’t been with any exceptionally endowed men. Probably the biggest was around 7.5 inches long and quite thick. A mouthful and then some. I met up with him in an adult bookstore and didn’t do anything other than suck, me sucking him. I guess I’m a slut according to Rick Reed’s recent post. 🙂 Well, former slut. I haven’t been to an adult bookstore in a couple of years.”
So what do you really want/need to know about cocks in M/M romances and gay fiction? Bear in mind these are just questions and this post is not intended to inhibit or influence authors, but to get the opinions of readers as they drink their morning java or have a morning “delight” :-D.
Do you think an author should give the exact inches (or centimeters) of the protagonists? Or should s/he describe the penis, cock, dick (pick one) in more general terms? How about –
“a long tube of flesh pulsing in his gym shorts.”
“His cock was long and thick and dripping with precum.'”
“It’s size lived up to my dreams.”
“As he f**ked, I almost felt as though his cock would come out my mouth, it was so long.”
I could go on but you get the idea. 🙂
In the gay porno paperbacks that my co-author John likes, length is quite often stated in exact dimensions: The 10 inch quarterback, the 12 inch linebacker, the 15 inch first baseman, etc. However, in M/M romances should cock size be left up to the imagination? Something along these lines might work:
“Long, thick, throbbing, spurting ………….. (you can add the rest )
So what is your preference readers – does size really matter in M/M romance? Of course none of us would like our heroes to have teeny man sticks that you have to have a magnifying glass to find, but that’s the subject of another post.
I don’t really care about the size as long as they *have* a dick in “my” m/m stories. 🙂
As far as the description? If the author goes on and on describing its length, appearance, etc., I’m skipping through thinking, wow! Don’t care all that much! A brief comment – “As he f**ked, I almost felt as though his cock would come out my mouth, it was so long.” – that’s plenty enough to give me the idea……got it.
Thanks for the interesting post; great for a Friday!!! 🙂
Hi Sherry
In addition to the Friday Guys I try to add a little spice to the day. 🙂
Because there’s such a range of descriptions in M/M romances and gay fiction I thought I would take the pulse of readers to see what they liked in their M/M romance.
Thanks for letting us know what works for you. I’ll keep it in mind when I become an author.
When the description starts getting technical, it becomes unbelievable. I don’t usually carry a ruler into the bedroom, thinking that might become the source of some performance anxiety. So to say “it’s twelve inches” brings to mind a tape measure lying amidst the sheet. And for what purpose?
The only description I really require is to get a visual image of the character. “Perfectly proportioned with the rest of his body” works for me. Or, the fact that someone needs to take extra care because they’re quite large can be mentioned, but the organ in question doesn’t need to be described at length (snicker). It’s is nice to know if it’s fully erect, too, as so much can be understood if it’s not. Is he afraid? Tired? Thinking of Margaret Thatcher. Sorry, borrowed that one from a previous thread.
Hey Winn
Glad you could get up this Friday morning.
“Thinking of Margaret Thatcher?” Holy crap. That would deflate any erection.
I like the bit about taking extra care because the guy’s equipment is quite large – gives me a picture. 🙂 I was just wondering what everyone thought since there is such a range of descriptions in the books, from being very graphic to nothing, almost as if the men had no dicks.
Carry a ruler to the bedroom? Now that’s a thought. Actually I did that once or twice but only in fun. 🙂
I don’t need the exact measurements. If I see descriptions of 12-inch meaty manhoods I start thinking of shrink-wrapped produce in the supermarket! I like to know if it’s got a curve or something that makes it ‘realistic’, but size isn’t important to me. I feel the same way about some M/F erotic romances where the heroine’s bra size gets a mention, or one time I read about the length of her nipples – uh, why is this important? Thank god I’ve not read a M/M book that includes nipple length, that would be too bizarre!
Hi Kate
>>If I see descriptions of 12-inch meaty manhoods I start thinking of shrink-wrapped produce in the supermarket<< You made me spill my coffee all over the keyboard. Damn!! >>Thank god I’ve not read a M/M book that includes nipple length, that would be too bizarre!<< I hope all the guys have flat nipples. I love nipple rings in books but they must be quite painful when first inserted. Since I don't read M/F I'm spared all the nipple stats. 🙂
I’ve run into all sizes, with mostly not much bearing on pleasure – a couple of teeny tiny exceptions, and one so large one could do little but get on one’s knees and bark at it. Here’s an interesting tidbit, though. Those infamous Greeks preferred small and thought too large ones ugly. And you can see this in their sculpture. The Romans felt mostly the same. Of course, you see paintings and mosaics with huge ones, but those are more in the way of porn. Same with Japanese porn. And American porn, for that matter
Victor
Victor
>>one so large one could do little but get on one’s knees and bark at it<< I have a picture in my head of you just sitting there looking at it and saying to yourself - "I just wanted a bite size, what the hell am I going to do with a huge triple decker burger." :) >>Of course, you see paintings and mosaics with huge ones, but those are more in the way of porn. << So what you're saying is that porn caters to a different audience? Many M/M readers love porn and I'm wondering if they change their mindset when they're reading a romance as opposed to a one handed read.
Interesting post, Wave. 🙂
I prefer general descriptions versus clinical and a measurement feels off as really, who goes around with a tape measure or ruler in their pocket.
Simply saying it’s long, thick, cut, uncut, a mouthful or even twitching 🙂 is good for me.
Hi Lily
Glad to wake you up.
>>I prefer general descriptions versus clinical and a measurement feels off as really, who goes around with a tape measure or ruler in their pocket<< Sometimes a tape measure comes in handy when you can't find it and you have to ask the question - Is that a cock or a clit? 🙂 Seriously, I think you align with most M/M readers who want general descriptions, not specific length, girth etc. How about giant heads? 🙂
Only if it comes with photographic proof.
TP
I could go for a photo or two to liven up some very boring books. 🙂
I don’t want too many details. It just has to be big enough to get the job done. (There is a yaoi somewhere out there on our circuit with a micro-penis. I believe I removed my name from the recipient list.) When someone says 10 inches, I seriously look at a piece of paper. Come on, that is abnormal as you noted with average 6 or so. Oh right and then they are swallowed down all the way. I would be IN his stomach at that point. Lets take some anatomy lessons people. And big around as a soda can? Can you say tearing?
So no, I don’t want details like that. I’d rather just imagine it the “perfect” size for me. Whatever that is in my head at the time. A general reference “bigger than I expected”, “nice and long”, “perfect and thick” and that keeps the hero’s fantasies and mine on the same page. If he goes “It was 12 inches, bigger than I expected” I’m like “No shit Sherlock, bigger than Paul Bunyan expected” but by leaving it vague it lets the reader have the perfect experience because we each have a different idea of “bigger” or “thick” or “long”.
I forgot to mention (and this came up in a Good Reads discussion) that men with HUGE organs often have trouble maintaining an erection or getting REALLY hard. There is only so much blood in the body that can head south (despite the number of dizzy men out there who’s blood rushes from their head) and it is a medical fact that the male body simply can’t maintain a really firm erection in a 12 inch penis (or bigger). Some of the guys said they’d noticed it in a larger guy, so not an urban legend. So being bigger isn’t always better. I’d rather be with someone smaller and hard than big and kind of limp even if excited.
Tam
I generally agree with your comments but I would go for an average at the higher end of the scale in RL. My ex spoiled me (TMI) 🙂
>>(There is a yaoi somewhere out there on our circuit with a micro-penis. I believe I removed my name from the recipient list.) << Who would be brave enough to circulate pictures of his micro penis? One my girlfriends left a guy high and dry in th middle of the act when she saw his equipment, which according to her, was one of these you need a magnifying glass to see. :) >> I’d rather be with someone smaller and hard than big and kind of limp even if excited.<< I guess there's only so much blood in the human body to charge all of those organs when the heart starts pumping. 🙂
Contrary to one of the comments above, an interest in penis size, or even adult bookstores, does not necessarily make you a slut.
And penis size? I hate to dispute the common saying, but size really doesn’t matter (unless it’s extreme, one way or the other). In my writing (and my wants as a reader), I don’t really care that much one way or the other if our hero has six inches or eight. It’s what’s attached to the cock that counts…and that goes for real life as well.
I was going to post a picture of my own endowment, but these darn comments won’t let me!
Rick
>>I was going to post a picture of my own endowment, but these darn comments won’t let me!<< Now you have me imagining your "endowment" which I know was the intention of that comment. Well you can't post it here but maybe my next post will be a competition to guess which author is attached to which penis. That should be a lot of fun gathering all the evidence (I mean photos). I'll have to give some thought about how to do this in good taste. :) >>I don’t really care that much one way or the other if our hero has six inches or eight. It’s what’s attached to the cock that counts…and that goes for real life as well.<< I love that statement Rick. However if our hero in RL has only 2" that might give me pause. 🙂
Two inches would be one of the instances where size does matter…as I said above, it doesn’t matter unless it’s extreme–one way or the other. And I pity the poor soul who has 2 inches.
I notice you didn’t take me up on my offer to collect a photo or two of your “equipment” for an anonymous guessing competition. I think that would be cool and you could garner lots of new fans, but not necessarily for your writing talent. Of course I could be lying and only want to have a picture for my private collection – you photo could be next to the one of my favourite singer Mick Jagger. .:)
I agree with you Rick. Some years ago I met a lieutenent with LAPD, strapping handsome guy, married to a beautiful wife and, as it turned out, bisexual. This was in my druggie days and he came by one day to announce that he wanted to get high and get it on. Now, even at my wildest, I shied away from getting high with policemans. Sooner or later, they’re going to turn on you. And, I really wasn’t big on married men, either – but, what can I say, I was an accomodating sort -at least until he got nekkid, and two inches would have been an overstatement. I hated to be mean, but I just could not get enthusiastic. Felt sorry for him, but, between that and the drug nervousness, nothing was going to happen. Sigh. I gave him a little vial and sent him on his way. He was a gorgeous thing, though, in all other respects.
Victor
This is so sad for that guy. Imagine having to face that teeny tiny toy every day when you have a shower. It must have been very hard (chuckle) for him whenever he had a new lover. I wonder how he ever got condoms to fit without them falling off.
At least you were nice enough to give him drugs to dull his pain. 😀
At least, Victor, you were sensitive enough not to hand him tweezers and a magnifying glass. That’s gotta put you a step closer to heaven. 😉
I noticed in places like Nifty they always state the size. For me a short description will do.
Ingrid
Nifty caters to an audience that likes porn more than M/M romance. Definitely a site for one handed reads and I do my share of browsing there. 🙂
Snerk. I have stuff posted on Nifty…
Shame on you Winn. You must tell me your Nifty ‘signature’ so that I could check out your posts. 🙂
Well, I think exact length in centimeters/inches is unnecessary. The authors don’t usually give us the hero’s waist or biceps measurement, do they? The size doesn’t really matter, but I kind of feel sorry for the heroes that are built like horses. I mean, wouldn’t it be awkward to lug around a third leg?
Btw, maybe I’m imagining this, but it seems that often in m/m the other hero is thicker and the other longer in this department?
I don’t think you are imagining it. I’ve noticed this too – one hero will tend to be thin but long and the other will be shorter but thick. I guess this is a way to show that neither character is better than the other, just different…or something like that.
Alexi
I think the authors are trying to even the playing field by giving each hero an organ of which he can be proud. I sometimes tend to think of the long thin dicks as knitting needles. Give me short and fat over long and skinny any day. 🙂
According to wiki (I had to check the article out once you’d mentioned it) most women agree that girth is more important than length. I personally find a too long penis acutely painful because I have a retroverted uterus (sorry if that’s TMI). BUT…do men agree? Because the tissue of the anal cavity is completely different – a lot less flexible, for a start – and the nerve distribution is different…so maybe a long thin one *is* better for guys? Any people of the Male Persuasion care to comment?
Alexi
I hope Rick gives us the benefit of his vast repertoire of information on this topic. He is one of my technical experts on gay males and the only thing he hasn’t shared so far with me that I requested is a photo of the “equipment”. 🙂
Sari
>>Btw, maybe I’m imagining this, but it seems that often in m/m the other hero is thicker and the other longer in this department?<< It's not your imagination. It seems like almost every author does this.
It’s really not so awkward to carry around the “third leg.” You make do with what you have.
Rick
You are such a little shit.
I stand corrected 🙂
Ooooooh! We SO need pictures, Rick.
I’m not much on descriptions with size details. And when I read about a ginormous one, I just think ‘Ouch!’
Celeste
If Rick sends you pictures you have to promise to share.
Ginormous is in the eye of the beholder. 🙂
Your info about primates was fascinating, Wave. Nature does everything for a reason. As hominids evolved into Homo sapiens and became more intelligent (theoretically *g*), the female of the species became more discriminating, with more varied standards for choosing a mate. So it’s possible male genitalia had to become more prominent to remain enticing.
In books? Depends on the genre. Readers of erotic romance expect a certain amount of focus on anatomical features. We all know how many heroines in m/f e-rom have breasts the size of two-man tents. So it only follows that heroes would have full baskets. This is the stuff of fantasy; most readers aren’t looking for doses of small-widgie or morning-breath realism.
But not all fiction, including m/m, is erotic or romantic. I don’t mind well-wrought “dickless” fiction at all.
Hi KZ
>>In books? Depends on the genre. Readers of erotic romance expect a certain amount of focus on anatomical features<< I have been told many times by publishers and authors that the more erotic an M/M romance is, the more the books sell (assuming that the stories are good). I guess part of my question was based on the assumption that the majority of M/M romance books are considered erotic and the audience expects a certain level of detail. So is penis size part of the detail that we need and/or expect in our erotic M/M romance? >>So it only follows that heroes would have full baskets<< I love a guy with a full basket. 🙂 [I'm not sure that comment would indicate that I have evolved, but I have, truly]. 🙂
Now this just makes me want to share the penis jokes from the hunter-gatherer tribes of the Amazon basin. (My anthropology teacher is a field anthropologist between semesters, and he likes to bring back all kinds of stories for us.)
Apparently in many cultures, a small penis is prized over a large one — the women, who control who gets to have sex and with whom and how often, etc., say they enjoy a modest-sized penis more than a large one.
As far as what I like to read… people may have gathered this from my writing *cough*, but I generally prefer knowing more about the psychological and emotional effects of sex than the physical dimensions of either partner’s equipment. After all, the brain is the most important sex organ! *grin*
ETA: OH. And I wouldn’t trust Cosmo to research their own birthdates. I can actually cite studies about the relationship of penis size to race – it has to do with flaccid size rather than erect. It’s complicated. But I can tell you the details sometime if you want. LOL
Hey Jules
>>Apparently in many cultures, a small penis is prized over a large one — the women, who control who gets to have sex and with whom and how often, etc., say they enjoy a modest-sized penis more than a large one.<< It's always wonderful to know what's happening in the Amazon basin. 🙂 I think the myth that the brain is the biggest sex organ was spread by a guy with a miniscule dick. 🙂 [OK I'm kidding] The Cosmo article was done way before you were born - I think it might have been 1992 (of course I'm dating myself here) but it was an independent study - Cosmo just published it. I think we should do our own survey. I'll see if I can get some willing guys to submit to our clinical trials. 🙂
Oh hang on, did you just say that 1992 was way before I was born? *wipes tears of laughter* Oh honey, thanks for that. (You do know I’m closing in on thirty, right?)
I think for men, it matters. Not so much that they are all size queens. Its more a virility thing. So since its m/m, yeah, the guys should be checking out the size of each other.
~smooches~
Jase
Jason
Is that why you read M/M – to check out the sizes? 🙂
My guy friends tell me that men always check each other out in the urinals – I always thought they were looking down at the urinal cakes. 🙂
Oh, have to share this one. Texan and Alaskan both standing on the Golden Gate bridge taking a leak. Texan says, “Man, that water is cold,” and the Alaskan says, “Yeah, and deep.”
Okay, it doesn’t exactly fit here, but…
Ha! I remember first hearing that joke from Richard Pryor. Still love it.
Great post, Wave! As an American reader of m/m, I’ve got to say that if I encounter a penis-size in centimeters, it’s going to knock me right out of the story while I search for a centimeters-to-inches converter. Talk about a mood-killer, ha, ha!
Val
You must remember that most of the world use the metric system. I have to convert numbers for US readers on this site because you (Americans) are the largest group who follow this site. 🙂 [Check out the newest site statistics on Saturday – I know you’re a numbers geek] 🙂
I think most guys would like their penis sizes converted to metric since they would have massive dicks. 🙂
“You must remember that most of the world use the metric system.” Ha, ha, very true, we’re kind of weird that way.
“I think most guys would like their penis sizes converted to metric since they would have massive dicks.”
Ha, ha, I was just thinking that! In terms of how impressive the numbers sound, metric works in their favor. Just like how maybe we American women would rather see our weight in kilograms than in pounds. 🙂
Val
Weight in kilograms always works for me. 🙂
Hmm I think the site ate my comment.
In visual porn, size doesn’t matter as long as the guy isn’t flopping around and disinterested.
In books, again it doesn’t matter to me as I assume it’s all good. No one ever has bad or mediocre sex in books. It’s always mind blowing and spew inducing to heights no one has ever seen.
I do remember that John Simpson likes to use HUGE cocks in his work. I read a book of his that had a scene with an unlubed foot long dick and just couldn’t help but wince for the other guy. He must never have walked right again. But the author commented that scene was based on a real life person he knew. Crazy!
Kassa
You’re quite correct about John Simpson’s books. I was referring to one of his books in this recent post –
“I reviewed a book several months ago where the hero had massive balls, his cock had a giant head, and as for his butt cheeks – words fail me but if they squeezed anyone he would suffocate”
I guess the heroes must have extra large showers so that all the “equipment” fits when they shower together. 🙂
>>But the author commented that scene was based on a real life person he knew. Crazy!<< I wasn't aware that this was based on RL. WOW. >>It’s always mind blowing and spew inducing to heights no one has ever seen. << The heroes in M/M always can always shoot buckets of sperm and never get soft. 🙂
From the response from readers, it seems that they appreciate my obsession with “showing a variety” – If men (as Rick extolled recently) can be proudly sluts, then I certainly was one too in my younger days and have notched up enough notches to reduces the bedstead to sawdust – one thing I’ve found is – to quote Heinlein – “All cats are not gray after midnight. Endless variety.” And I love to show this – some are short and stubby, some long and thin, Fleury is quite a bit smaller than Ambrose – some of my men have cocks as bent as bananas – there’s nothing more boring that all the men in a story being hung like donkeys with massive cut cock heads. If I want to see that, I’ll read graphic gay sex comics.
Also, there’s never enough description of testicles for my liking. I find these unbearably erotic when having sex, and will often spend as long on them than the cock, and yet they are hardly ever mentioned except for the cliched sentences like “he was buried to his balls” or “his balls slapped against his thighs”
Erastes
Variety is the key. As you, said if all the guys in M/M romances or gay fiction had huge cocks then that too would become boring, although I do draw the line at the pencil dicks.
I never would have thought that you rivalled Rick in the “cock whore” department. 🙂 You bad girl.
Don’t knock the pencil dicks – they can be very fun, used correctly.
And hey – they say “write what you know”!
Erastes
I’m willing to try anything but I don’t think I’ll go there. I’ll be thinking of a knitting needle trying to poke my eyes (or something else) out. 🙂
This whole conversation made me think of a little something I wrote a while back that I’ve yet to publish. I thought it might be apropos here:
Walter bit his lip. Rising from a heavy matte of black pubic hair was the most humongous male organ he could imagine. It jutted straight up, roped with purple veins, topped with a head that looked like some sort of Mediterranean plum. Walter wondered if he could widen his mouth enough to encircle the monstrous width. Stavros’ balls were pulled taut by the burning, blood-engorged penis above.
Stavros placed his hand on Walter’s neck.
“Please…on your knees.”
Walter was afraid. Afraid he would gag, afraid his inexperience would be only too clear. He was also excited and as he slid down the length of Stavros’ body, wondered how the cock would taste and what would be the best way to please him.
Walter took the raging erection in his hand, pulling it level with his mouth. He looked up and asked,
“Just out of curiosity, how big is this thing, anyway?”
“It measures nearly fourteen inches when fully erect. But you, my randy playmate, have certainly made its length increase to fifteen inches.”
“Ah…I bet you say that to all the guys.”
“Please…your mouth.”
Walter licked the head slowly, stopping to insert his tongue in the piss slit, licking out the oozing secretions. He then tongued the entire shaft up and down. Stavros’ legs quivered as he involuntarily clutched a handful of Walter’s hair.
He moaned.
He took him in his mouth and slid down as far as he could, then held his breath and slid a little furthis. Stavros said, “Christ, you’re good.”
Encouraged, Walter frantically bobbed his head up and down on his cock, alternating the pace every so often with slow, swirling strokes. He took time out to suck Stavros’ balls and lick the sensitive area behind them. Stavros led Walter’s finger to his ass, urging his to insert it into his warm, tight bunghole.
Walter had just put the head of Stavros’ cock in his mouth when Stavros shuddered, grabbed his head and forced it down.
Suddenly hot jets of semen shot hard against the back of his throat. Walter thought the flow would never stop. His cheeks billowed out with come; rivulets of spunk ran out of the corners of his overstretched mouth.
Finally, the flow of man–juice ceased. Walter wiped the come off his chin with the back of his hand and stood.
Rick
Please send me the book when you’re finished writing it. This is definitely fantasy worthy. 🙂
This reminds of somewhat of FUGUE where most of the interaction between the men took place on a train. I LOVED that book because it was so horny.
Or, as a friend of mine used to say, “cut a hole in the ceiling and kiss your girlfriend goodbye.”
Rick, I just emailed Nowell and told him he had to join this.
O_O
Fifteen inches? My damned cheeks would be billowing, too, even if I took in that thing from below deck!
I think they should just leave it to the imagination. It only needs to be long enough to hit the prostate gland, am I right?
Variety is good too. Giant cocks all around is kind of unrealistic, and even small guys can have fun too. I watched a Japanese porn a while back with a guy with a very small member, but he had a great time (he was a bottom, so penis size is irrelevant, in my opinion). So long as it works, it can be used, and the guy enjoys himself, size is immaterial.
Mikuto
I agree that variety is important. However for the guy who was a bottom his top should at least have enough length to reach his prostate. Some bottoms are switches which makes it even more important that they have something to work with and make the act enjoyable for their partners.. 🙂
Same as above, if I start reading measurements like an architectural blueprint, I’m turned off. My vivid imagination can work without numbers. When I read “so long I could feel it coming up my throat”, I start thinking bad Vlad the Impaler guro porn.
Speaking of small packages, I actually read a fanfic that went like so: After years of lusting after his ideal man, the hero finds out the reluctant object of his affection has a micropenis. He goes through angst, revulsion, and then some soul searching to realize he doesn’t care. He then professes an apology and his love.
I’d like to see someone make a sex scene with a small penis work.
Kim
I’m not sure I would enjoy a movie or a book starring a guy with a micro penis. Also, see Victor’s comment about the guy with a two incher. 🙂
I would like something reasonable in an M/M romance like 6 inches if the author is going to describe the hero’s equipment in detail.
I don’t mind if they’re all above average 😉 as long as the writer doesn’t go on about it too much. That just gets repetitive and boring. Anyway, what they do with it is more interesting in a story,
A ridiculously massive one just makes me have a “sez you” reaction anyway. I mean it’s like a fisherman’s tall tale isn’t it? Anyone can SAY they had one a foot long. If I can see it in a picture or video, then hey, there it is, I can’t argue, it’s a monster. But in text. Meh, sez you.
JFM
For me above average would be over 7 1/2 inches 🙂 for someone else it might be over 5″ or 6″ but at least those numbers are in the ball park.
Seriously though, I think it depends on the book. Earlier in this post I mentioned FUGUE, Rick Reed’s extraordinary adventure on the El in Chicago. The guy’s dick must have been 10 inches, although I don’t remember if he stated the actual length and circumference or if it was inferred. Anyhow it was a monster. 🙂
There are pictures of monster dicks on the internet. I did some research for this post and found a few men who were quite well endowed. I love research. 🙂
Jesse, reading as many books as I do in this category, it always adds a touch of spice when I get to discover how the men involved are endowed. Now I know(and it should be this way)that not every man can be a ten incher, but it always makes me feel good to see there are some out there who range in the six or seven category. That gives hope to all the other guys out there who are hung in that range and of course that gets their engines running as well. I enjoy reading about what the dick looks like, cut or uncut, size of the balls, hairy or no, etc. Helps give me a better profile of each fellow involved. Those with ten or more inches, I mean come on, what can you do with the other four or five inches that you can’t get in your mouth….burp it?
Hi Nowell
Welcome to the site. As you can see, we have some very interesting discussions.
>>reading as many books as I do in this category, it always adds a touch of spice when I get to discover how the men involved are endowed<< I agree that sometimes a bit of personal detail does add spice. :) 6" or 7" are about average, and as my co-author of this post John said, a mouthful and then some if you are 7 1/2" or more. >>Those with ten or more inches, I mean come on, what can you do with the other four or five inches that you can’t get in your mouth….burp it?<< Victor Banis said that you could bark at it. 🙂
Size does matter! Especially when it’s staring you in the face. : )
Actually, I’d say if the author is male, you can’t really take them at their word in terms of size. : ) We tend to exaggerate when it comes to cock size. 10 inches to a male author is probably more like eight maybe eight in a half in real life.
I’d show you my own just to prove my point, but Wave told me to keep it in my pants. Hee.
Ethan my lovely
So nice to have you here today when we’re talking about dicks, cocks, pricks whatever you want to call them.
See, I always knew that men tended to exaggerate about size in books and RL, and now you confirmed it. The question is whether authors should be specific about size – length, girth, bulbous heads 🙂
You are such a liar. I never said you couldn’t show yours. Just email a picture to me of said implement, duly notarized. 🙂
How can you even ask…like I’d ever tire of hearing about such a wonderful topic. : )
LOL…I can just imagine trying to take a photo of my dick to be notarized. Are going to come bail me out of jail?
Ethan
I wouldn’t bail you out of jail because I know you would be having too much fun with the rest of the “residents” 🙂
That does sound nice in theory, Wave, but I do still enjoy being able to choose what I put into my body. : ) I’m pretty sure they don’t actually take the time to ask permission during a gang bang. LOL.
One of my favorite RL stories was from a friend who told me about her first time. She said it seemed perfect – champagne, Frenchman, moonlight. He pulled down his pants and she said “Is that it?” She could hardly see his penis. Fortunately he thought she was very inexperienced and went on to explain intercourse to her.
Sounds like she simply needed more champagne, Treva. 🙂 That could make any situation seem a little less…deficient.
Treva
Great story. 🙂
It seems the Frenchman had one of those teeny, tiny mansticks that you need a magnifying glass to find. 🙂
As Ethan said, perhaps he should have given her more champagne so she wouldn’t remember.
For me, I like my cocks like I like my men: long and slim. Lots of talk about beef (or meat) bayonets or mushroom heads leave me flat (there’s a metaphor! LOL).
Really, just like we had with the “what to call the little rosebud” discussion…less is better, IMO.
L
Leslie
There seems to be such a wide range on this topic. Some readers don’t want specifics yet they seem to want a lot of descriptive words. 🙂
Long and slim and short and chubby seem to be the descriptions that are favoured by a lot of writers when describing the protagonists so that each hero has either length or girth. Why can’t they have both? 🙂
Man, I’m lucky I wasn’t drinking or eating anything when I read this. I would’ve spewed stuff all over my monitor and keyboard. 🙂
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Anywhoo…as a reader, I don’t have to know exactly how long it is to the inch. I like the vague descriptions so I can imagine it for myself, but I also like more detailed descriptions if it’s unusual somehow like if it’s got a right hook or something like that. I also agree with the person who said that if the measurement is in metric, then it throws me right out of the story because I have to convert it to inches because I just can’t stand to know the exact number once it’s mentioned. If you keep it to things like long, wide, short, thin, etc. then I don’t have to worry about converting.
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I also like to see a variety of sizes in body types as well as man bits. After a while, the 6′ muscled men with blonde hair, blue eyes, 12″ in equipment, and beautiful as a god all run together and become boring. Like the old saying goes, variety is the spice of life. On the other hand, I’m with wave also because if one of the characters had a micropenis, that would throw me out of the flow too because I couldn’t help but pity the poor sod for the rest of the story.
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So to summarize, I like anything from on the small side (but not micro) to on the large side (but not monster), and vague descriptions as opposed to actual numbers.
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Also, I like my stories with a believable amount of sex in them. If the book is 3/4 sex and 1/4 plot, then I usually don’t like it as well and usually start skipping over the sex sections after the first 3 or 4 scenes. There are exceptions to this rule, but they are getting to be few and far between.
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Just my two cents worth.
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P.S. Be sure to share if you get any photos of the equipment…it’s (more than) nice to have an image to go along with the face… 🙂
Hi CountrygirlXXOO
>>P.S. Be sure to share if you get any photos of the equipment…it’s (more than) nice to have an image to go along with the face<< Everyone wants pictures. Maybe we should petition all the male M/M authors and demand that they send them, duly authenticated of course. :) the problem is that other than Rick, Victor, and a couple of others most of them are shy about showing their faces. I do have a picture of Rick's ALMOST nekkid body, but that's all. :) >>I also like to see a variety of sizes in body types as well as man bits. After a while, the 6? muscled men with blonde hair, blue eyes, 12? in equipment, and beautiful as a god all run together and become boring<< I did a post about this here http://www.gayromance.org/?p=16921
This was a follow up to another post I had done over a year ago on the same topic but so far I haven’t noticed any change from the blond, hot looking twenty somethings with buff bodies other than a few authors who give readers a bit of variety.
Re M/M romances that are more sex than plot, that’s a universal refrain. I did several surveys about what readers want in that area and maybe it’s time for another one.
Thanks so much for commenting.
Hi CountrygirlXXOO
>>P.S. Be sure to share if you get any photos of the equipment…it’s (more than) nice to have an image to go along with the face< < Everyone wants pictures. Maybe we should petition all the male M/M authors and demand that they send them, duly authenticated of course. the problem is that other than Rick, Victor, and a couple of others most of them are shy about showing their faces. I do have a picture of Rick's ALMOST nekkid body, but that's all. >>I also like to see a variety of sizes in body types as well as man bits. After a while, the 6? muscled men with blonde hair, blue eyes, 12? in equipment, and beautiful as a god all run together and become boring< < I did a post about this here http://www.gayromance.org/?p=16921
This was a follow up to another post I had done over a year ago on the same topic but so far I haven’t noticed any change from the blond, hot looking twenty somethings with buff bodies other than a few authors who give readers a bit of variety.
Re M/M romances that are more sex than plot, that’s a universal refrain. I did several surveys about what readers want in that area and maybe it’s time for another one.
Wow! All these comments, Wave! Looks like there is some interest in this topic.
Most of my comments have already been quoted in the body of the article, but I like vague descriptions of dick in m/m romance. In one handed books, give me lots of details in long, thick, and dripping inches. In gay porn videos, bigger is definitely better, even the bottom guy needs a whopper. And then there is real life……….muscular, hairy, ripped, and hung with a sensitive romantic heart and well read brain……hmmmmm…….but if he is ripped then he spends all his spare time in the gym instead of those candlelit dinners with me. pout. Maybe he’ll let me soap him up after the workout. I could term the shower scene as romance. grin
Wave, I’m not going to send a pic of my privates to be included in your research. No, don’t threaten me. I’m going to tell. Don’t touch me. M.L.! Help!
John my sweet
Thank you for all the help on the post.
>>I like vague descriptions of dick in m/m romance.<< Is this what you call vague? :) “As he f**ked, I almost felt as though his cock would come out my mouth, it was so long.” >>Wave, I’m not going to send a pic of my privates to be included in your research<< If you won't help, there goes my research project. I was going to ask Jules to assist in the study since she does a lot of research in the Amazon basin for her anthropology studies. Oh well, it was a good scam. 🙂
Precise measurements don’t matter to me in M/M erotica or, um, in “one-handed” porn.
I don’t see a huge, pun intended, difference in the two genres; M/M erotic romance seems to be PWP to me, and that’s great…not sure if that should be “porn with plot” or “plot with porn” though…but the sex scenes are as graphic in one as the other, so why would I want something different?! But I guess that’s just me….
In either case, exact numbers seem silly. Thick or long or impressive or whatever–really, we know what this means and if we want, can’t we attach an exact # to it that we think works? Only the size queens care about the exact # IMHO.
Don’t get me started on how all protags are WELL over 6′ (eyeroll, I know I’m not a hero type at 5’6″ but puh-lease…) or this one book I’m reading where a guy sitting in a restaurant touched the opposite chair which was 4′ (the author specified) away from his chair. Yes, he must’ve been over 8′ tall. 😉
Really, fewer measurements all around would suit me just fine. Rant over, LOL.
Kendall
>>Precise measurements don’t matter to me in M/M erotica or, um, in “one-handed” porn. I don’t see a huge, pun intended, difference in the two genres; M/M erotic romance seems to be PWP to me, and that’s great…not sure if that should be “porn with plot” or “plot with porn” though…but the sex scenes are as graphic in one as the other, so why would I want something different?! But I guess that’s just me….<< I think a lot of M/M romance writers would contest your statement that PWP and M/M romance is one and the same sub genre. :) I do find a lot of differences in that most M/M authors try to write a story, not just string a bunch of sex scenes together unlike PWP. Whenever I find that a story is 3/4 sex, I always comment in my review that there is no plot, only sex. Very few authors have the talent and skill to write a story that contains a lot of sex scenes and still make the story interesting. There are also some very sweet M/M romances that have very little sex and are actually wonderful books. One of my favourites is The One That Got Away by Madeleine Urban and Rhianne Aile. I have several other favourites with very little sex, one of which is an Age of Sail historical by Alex Beecroft Captain’s Surrender. If you like these stories I could try to come up with other recs. for you.
I hear you about the unrealistic characterizations where all the protagonists are 6’+, young, hot looking and hung. I have been complaining about this for a long time and have written two posts, the most recent was this one
http://www.gayromance.org/?p=16921
It seems that book heroes will always be unrealistic because readers want fantasies and escape from RL. A few authors are bucking this trend and I hope there will be more as readers’ tastes evolve.
BTW I received your email and will respond later tomorrow. I’m trying to finish a book that I promised to review tomorrow.
Thanks so much for supporting the site Kendall. 🙂
Occured to me belatedly, someone asked about m/m romance in which someone had a small one. In one of Jay Little’s books, either Maybe Tomorrow or (I think more likely) the sequel Somewhere Between the Two, the protagonist is small. These were written before the days of frank sex scenes, but in one of them the protag (Bob?) goes to a gay bar and when a guy tries to pick him up, Bob takes the guy’s hand and puts it on his crotch and says, in effect, I heard you guys only liked big ones, I guess you’re not interested now; btw, they go home together.
Just thought I’d share
Victor
That is such a wonderful story, which proves the point that the largest sex organ is the brain. Thank you for this. I guess I’ll be checking out both books. 🙂
Don’t bring the caliper into the bedroom! I’ve read books that reveled in measurement and I always felt like I was back in Mechanics of Materials.
Wave, that picture warped my mind at the tender age of 11. I had the most unrealistic sex fantasies ever throughout puberty.
I figure most men are of average length and cut, unless informed otherwise. Uncut is uncommon in the US.
One of my favorite descriptions of an oversized cock involves our hero gawking, wondering if he can fit it into his mouth even soft, and mentally quoting Ezekiel: “members like horses and issue like asses and you shall long for the lustful Egyptians of your youth.”
I’ve written everything from Mr. Hung-like-a-horse there to the beautiful eunuch. It’s not quite a micropenis, but he is self-conscious about being small.
Lilli, you asked on the variety thread which that was. It’s called For Love of Etarin. it was Joyfully Recommended in March 2008.
Angelia
Thanks for stopping by.
First, that’s not a penis in the picture (at least I don’t think so) I think it’s part of a walking stick of some sort. I never have full frontal on this site – we have standards to maintain. 🙂
I love your quote. How do you remember this stuff?
This post was just merely to find out what readers want and I’m glad to see that most of them prefer general descriptions. Of course “Mr Hung-like -a-horse” works as well too, depending on the context. 🙂
Angelia, thank you for coming back to me with the title! 🙂 That sounds like my book to a T. Since reading “The Persian Boy” I’m obsessed with eunuchs. And what does that say about me in this post’s context? *ducks head* 😉
[It seems to be quite difficult to find good books involving eunuchs, and I really can’t imagine why. 😉 Now I just have to get over myself and buy over at EC. *grumbles* Why is the book not available at ARe, for example? *sighs*)
Sorry now, back to the topic. I’m with the majority, I guess, and really don’t care too much about size, vague descriptions are ok with me.
In fact I find myself being rather turned off by the penis being described as huge. (And since a reader comes across a huge one more often than a really small one, I can’t know if the latter would turn me off, too. I think I should check out the books mentioned by Rick Reed to find out for sure…)
I couldn’t stand “enormous” cocks in my het romances, either. JRW’s Black Daggers, for example, they most probably would make me run screaming for the hills and not throw myself to their (enormous) feet begging them to you-know-what like all those heroines always do. But just imagine those vampires with medium sized cocks. That would be “micro sized” in their world, what a shame… 😉
The pic in your post, Wave, makes me think of salami (after the initial shock) and I’d prefer salami over cock more often than not. I’d also go for the semi-naked guy (with pants on) instead of the fully naked one. I just like the glimpses more than the full picture.
Hm. I’m weird. I should shut up.
Lilli
I think the law of averages works very well with penises. BTW as I mentioned to Angelia, that’s not a penis in the pic, I think it’s a walking stick of some sort. I just wanted to see how observant you guys are. So all you’re getting is a small glimpse of the real goods.:)
Eunuchs eh? To each his own. 🙂
A walking stick of some sort, eh? Then I’d like to see the subsequent pic you surely suppress. 😉
Wave, it’s amazing what you can find in your Bible when you are young and bored and memorize stuff easily. It’s from Ezekiel 23, a nastily misogynistic chapter, in which YHWH is a bigamist and both his wives are whores. Most of the chapter stuck, actually, and it, along with David and Jonathan and Jesus healing the Centurion’s boy, turn up often in my writing when there are Christian characters.
Lilli, Naomi and I describe “For Love of Etarin” as Star Wars meets the Persian Boy. All your eunuch obsession says is that you have found a kink that hits your buttons, for now, and wish to indulge.
Angelia
So what you’re saying is that for my next post I should first check out the Bible to get a few leads? 🙂 That’s so wrong!
One final, shorter try, then I’m giving up on adding a comment to this thread since it’s not working:
I meant that since porn and M/M seem (to me) to be similar in explicitness, etc., that I personally don’t want (or see a point to) exact measurements. (I admit I haven’t read any outright porn in a long time.)
Re. unrealistic protags: Usually I’m groovy with this, and some authors do vary the type (frequently with an age difference). For some reason, the “everyone’s 6’6” thing was bugging me this week, though. 😉
Thanks for a great site! 😀
Kendall
>>Re. unrealistic protags: Usually I’m groovy with this, and some authors do vary the type (frequently with an age difference). For some reason, the “everyone’s 6?6? thing was bugging me this week, though<< Unrealistic protags is one aspect of M/M romance, or any romance for that matter that bugs me too and as I said before, I've written about it but everyone ignores me, as usual. I havent't responded to you email as yet because I'm so behind everywhere but it's coming.
P.S. ZOMG IT WORKED!!! Hehehe. Only took like 6 tries.
Kendall
I’m very sorry that you were having trouble posting. It happens to me too. The “comment” plug in is very temperamental. 🙂
Not much left to add here, but I will suggest that more uncut men should appear in fiction of this kind.
Batboy
Where have you been? I’ve missed you.
So you would like more uncut men in M/M books? I think at least 25% of the guys in these books are uncut, especially in the stories written by British and other European authors, but in North America the trend seems to be men who are cut. Maybe it’s time I relooked at my last survey on cut and uncut. 🙂
Hehehe. I saw that painting when I visited Pompei years ago. I think most of the guys in my group were slightly traumatized/jealous/envious when they saw it *g*
As for the size thing in M/M books, I’ll go with the old saying that it’s not the size that matters, it’s how he uses it. OK, of course a MINIMUM of size is necessary, but besides that, anything is good. And I don’t like technical or overly precise descriptions; your second suggestion “His cock was long and thick and dripping with precum’” is the one I liked best 😉
Mary
So what you’re saying is that a 2 incher would not work for you? 🙂
I didn’t realize you actually saw that painting. Was it as awesome in real life? I keep telling everyone here that that’s not a penis but the end of a walking stick. Was I wrong? Hell, if I were a man and that thing was real I would be so envious. 🙂