As I was reading a story a few days ago with the same theme as the last 10 books I had read recently, it struck me that other readers must have noticed this trend as well. There doesn’t seem to be any imagination left in this sub genre which is surprising, as it’s really only been around in its current form since about 2003. In less than a decade we are being fed retreads – what will happen in 20 years? Many authors are using the same tried and true tropes to the point where readers are heartily sick of them, and each book reads just like the one we read yesterday or the day before…… Sometimes I feel like I’m reliving Groundhog Day, the wacky 1993 movie starring Bill Murray as a weatherman who falls into a time warp and relives the same 24 hours over and over again until he gets it right. I love our authors but there are about 8 or 9 themes that are constantly recycled by some of them. How many times have you read books with these themes?
Theme #1: The Big Misunderstanding. This is where one protagonist has a big secret that affects their relationship in a material way, but he does not share it with his lover and this creates an impasse, leading to a separation of days/weeks/months/years/decades. Eventually they reunite and there’s an HEA. In the intervening period of time they may have other lovers (or not) but THEY DO NOT COMMUNICATE with each other because that would be WRONG. Don’t guys talk in RL? Why are so many gay men incapable of simple communication in books?
Theme #2 – Homophobic Society=Runaway Teens = hookers : Protagonist no. 1 (a teen) runs away from home because of pressure from parents/church/community/bullies and ends up on the streets selling his body. How else can he take care of himself ? Jobs like bus boys are too difficult to find, so whoring himself to all and sundry is the only way to go apparently. Eventually he meets Protagonist No. 2, usually an older man, who loves him despite his past and they live happily ever after. Of course there are teenage runaways in RL and a few of them end up as hookers, but in M/M romances they almost always end up as hookers.
Theme #3 – Gay For You: I must admit I like this theme but only when it makes sense. Here a straight man falls for a gay man and they live happily ever after. Ask any gay man who has fallen for his straight friend about the likely outcome – the happy ever after NEVER HAPPENS. As one blogger (Angela) said in a comment on the site on Sunday when I raised the issue of recycled tropes in M/M, if it were that easy then the churches/parents that are determined to “drive the gay out of every gay teen” are right, because if GFY is possible the churches can just as easily turn someone who is gay straight. Now if the GFY plot had a protagonist living on the down low that would make sense, but for a totally straight man who never had any desire to have sex with another man to suddenly fall for a guy, and they live happily ever after? Cue the violins. 🙂 Marie Sexton suggested that the books should differentiate between GFY and those with closeted gay men who find that one gay man that makes them come out of the closet which should be called Out for You. 🙂 I think she has something that makes sense here.
Theme #4 – Stalkers: How many more stories about stalkers do we have to endure? Isn’t it time to put a fork in this theme? Because I love mysteries and murder most foul maybe I read more books with this trope, but even in the mystery genre I would expect authors to put more thought into their plots and offer us some variety. For all I know there may be a stalker outside my door right now because I sneaked ahead of him in the line at the grocery store. (See how ridiculous this is?) In M/M there is a stalker around almost every corner. Run and hide. lol.
Theme #5 – Insta-Love: How many books have you read recently about a couple falling instantly in love the minute they meet? I can buy this in paranormal books where the mating frenzy takes precedence over anything else, but in contemporary romances it’s more than a bit of a stretch. How about the guys meet, get to know each other and find out if their potential mate is a serial killer BEFORE jumping into bed and swearing everlasting love?
Theme #6 – Rape: I did a post a few weeks ago about extreme plots involving violent themes. The most prevalent violent theme in M/M is rape. Why are gay men being raped at every turn in our books which are supposed to be romances? If I want to read about men being raped about every three minutes I would not read gay romances. Do gay men deserve to be raped in books because some readers enjoy reading about it? As for what is euphemistically called “non con,” that is also rape. If it’s not consensual, it’s rape. Non con creates the impression that it’s okay to force a man to have sex because if a gun or knife or other weapon isn’t held to his head, or if he isn’t tied up, ‘no’ mean’s ‘yes.’ I know that some readers love non con, but can the rest of us have a few books without rape in all its forms?
Theme #7: – Kidnappings. Another favourite of M/M authors. No doubt kidnappings happen in the real world but our authors have multiplied the percentage, going by the numbers of books with this theme.
Theme #8 – In historical books all gay men are hanged or imprisoned if caught. Whoa! How many times can an author use this trope in historical M/M books without readers getting sick and tired of it? Can authors not use this theme 98% of the time? I understand that authenticity is important in historical books but when I read a historical ‘romance’ I expect a romance, so can we de-emphasize the ‘horrible consequences if caught’ ? Let’s have authors give the readers a real romance with a HFN. Don’t call it a romance unless it is – call it something else. Not all historical writers do this and I’ve always liked Alex Beecroft’s, Charlie Cochrane’s and Lee Rowan’s approach to these stories because at least their books are romances and de-emphasize the hangings.
Theme #9 – Cops = Extreme Homophobia: We know that the ‘boys in blue’ are not exactly kind to their gay ‘brothers’ who are out, but it would be nice if most of the stories about gay cops are not almost exclusively focused on homophobia in the forces and the gay cops who are barely tolerated while doing their jobs. There’s no doubt that homophobia exists in this male bastion of testosterone, but most readers read romances to escape from RL. Let’s not shove unpleasant facts constantly in readers’ faces – that’s what the 6 o’clock news and the local newspapers are for.
Some themes are not as overused as others and a few readers may not notice them as much as I do, especially if you are new to M/M, but give yourself a year or 2.
I understand that there is not a lot that is original in any genre but some authors manage to take an old trope and turn it into something delightful and a joy to read. That is called writing! The reason we buy different books is because we expect them to be different. If I wanted to read the same story over and over I would re-read my old books and not waste my money buying carbon copies. When I first started reading gay romances they were new and different and the plots and characters were exciting. Case in point: In almost a decade since Chris Owen released Bareback and 9-1-1 these books are garnering new fans every day because she wasn’t a copy cat. Some readers may not like the themes of cheating and multiple partners, but the books were well written, fresh, different, and the characters were unforgettable.
There’s much to be celebrated in this sub genre and I’m not dumping on M/M authors, I just want them to strive for excellence. There is hope with brand new writers like Harper Fox who shows incredible range and imagination in her plots and has written some excellent books so far but we need other authors, seasoned and new, to step up.
Here are a few books that I loved: Almost Like Being In Love by Steve Kluger released in 2004 and A Bit of Rough that Laura Baumbach wrote in 2005. The Adrien English Mysteries released by Josh Lanyon over a decade ago which ended in 2009. How about the delightful Coda series by Marie Sexton or M.L. Rhodes’ wonderful paranormal series The Draegan Lords? JL Langley’s Sci Regency or With or Without series? Jordan Castillo Prices’s Psycop series? Tigers and Devils by Sean Kennedy? Ally Blue wrote the Bay City Paranormal Investigations series that was original, scary and entertaining. Similarly, Clare London always offers her readers fresh themes and doesn’t recycle the old tropes. These are just a few examples of great books or authors who give readers thrills and chills, and there are many more like them out there, but when we finish reading all the recommendations from other M/M readers what on earth are we going to do? I could go on about the M/M books that I really love, but my point is that a few M/M writers are writing memorable books and the others are taking a pass. If this continues, the core readership of this sub genre will find something else to occupy their spare time.
A few more from my list of books that were and still are a pleasure to read:
A Note in the Margin – Isabelle Rowan
Dangerous Ground series – Josh Lanyon
Cut & Run/Sticks & Stones/Fish & Chips – Madeleine Urban and Abigail Roux
Untamed Heart – Ally Blue
The Mercenary’s Tale – Lynn Lorenz
Zero at the Bone – Jane Seville
The Deadly series – Victor J Banis
Snowball in Hell – Josh Lanyon
Faith & Fidelity – Tere Michael
Mexican Heat – Josh Lanyon and Laura Baumbach
Breakfast at Tiffany’s – Lynn Lorenz
Fire Season – Lex Valentine
Mind Fuck – Manna Francis
Sno Ho/Life in Fusion – Ethan Day
Promises/A to Z/The Letter Z/Strawberries for Dessert – Marie Sexton
Wicked Gentlemen by Ginn Hale
The earlier M/M books were trailblazers but new authors can blaze their own trails if they do the work. Obviously it’s tougher to come up with something new for every book, but writers should respect their readers and not serve up the same diet every day. On the other hand I have to give kudos to our paranormal and fantasy writers because their plots and their world building are outstanding.
Who are your favourite authors who write books that are fresh and exciting that make you want to stay in bed all day under the covers and just live in their worlds? I gave you a few recs – what are yours?
I don’t think that m/m has lost its imagination at all/ To me, all the tropes that you’ve listed make it more and more like het romance. There we see the same old tropes over and over as well. The goal of any author should be to use those tropes with a fresh voice, with great character and world building. Tropes are what keeps us coming back to romance, IMO. The story arc feels familiar, but with something new and exciting. Plus, there’s always the guarantee of HEA (or in some cased HFN).
I understand that there is not a lot that is original in any genre but some authors manage to take an old trope and turn it into something delightful and a joy to read. That is called writing!
And there’s the issue right there!
I think that every romance reader has some trope that pushes their buttons, whether they read het or m/m.
And as an aside, I hate the term non con. Like you, I agree that if it’s “non con”, it’s rape, Calling it anything else legitimizes it in some way, IMO.
Hi Lori
One of the reasons that I stopped reading het romances was that it had become old and stale and the authors were recycling the same old stuff. I expected (probably unrealistically) that M/M, which started out with a lot of promise, would give readers a fresh approach to romance other than it was about two men rather than a man and a woman.
Many M/M authors seem to think that it’s enough just to have 2 gay protagonists to make their books different, but it isn’t. It takes a lot of skill to write a book that will hold a reader’s interest until the end and as far as I can see, except for a few authors, many of them aren’t even trying.
Part of the problem is that many het authors are now writing M/M and bringing their old baggage with them. Also new authors aren’t being given the help they need to develop their plots and characters so readers are left holding the bag.
As for rape, I’m sick and tired of reading about men being raped. I think this is another theme where we can put a fork in it.
There is plenty of imagination in gay lit. These imaginative manuscipts, however, have a hard time getting published if they’re not assigned a specific genre like “romance” or “thriller.” We all know it’s risky for a publisher to take chances, especially in this economy, on something too different than what has proven appeal.
Hi Eric
I read many M/M books that don’t fall into the romance genre that I love. Case in point Ginn Hale’s Wicked Gentlemen and Jordan Castillo Price’s PsyCop series so there are publishers who take a chance. You just have to find the right one.
Wave you have mentioned most of mine except Ginn Hale. Love love love her ability to tell a story. I totally am a fan. I doted on Harper last week : )
Lisa
Funny you should mention Ginn. As I re-read this post I updated it to include Wicked Gentlemen which is one of my favourite books but than you for the reminder.
I keep hoping that things will turn around for me and a lot of readers who are complaining about this sub genre becomg stale.
Yes, Harper is a new author who shows a lot of promise. 🙂
Hi Wave. Wow, I just felt like I watched the news 🙁 I better stay home today, I might be abducted, non-conned (that’s the way I’ll think of it in my head when it’s happening), fall instantly in love with my non-connist, then misunderstand his intentions and in the intervening years start turning tricks until I happen to be abducted again by the same man who is going to non-con me. Why couldn’t he just talk to me?
Just a day in the life…
I have no first-hand experience, but I do think this is a discussion that should include publication. I think readers know after an author has released a few books if they can rely on them for the same tropes they love (which many readers seem to want in romance, which I think is pretty normal for the romance genre) or if they are an author who has a constantly changing and fresh voice, like KZ Snow, for example. But what I’d really like to see is how much an aspiring author’s work gets changed at various publications to tote-the-party-line, so to speak, until that author has sold enough to gain their own clout and readership so that a publication will take a chance on a story with different themes.
BTW, thanks for mentioning that about non-con. It took me a long time to understand why it was called non-con because I couldn’t believe someone wouldn’t call it what it was, rape. But then again, I’m distinctly opposed to reading it, so I would take issue with the nomenclature…
Thanks for an interesting post, as always 🙂
Cole
I’m so glad to bring a bit of fun into your dreary Friday morning where the temperature is probably about 70 degrees and the sun is shining.
As you can tell these tropes are driving me to boredom. I understand that the romance genre has many tropes that authors love to write, but hell this is like eating the same meal over and over again or having sex only in the missionary position.
I agree that publishers need to develop new ideas because if they don’t they will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
I really wish authors wouldn’t call rape non con and that we would have a lot less of this trope in M/M books. What really bugs me is when a lot of the authors then turn the rapist/victim into the Stockholm syndrome.
You might be safe today from the rapist/kidnapper but look out tomorrow. 🙂
Oh, my… #2, #3 (Out for You – Bravo, Marie!)& #6 (there’s NOT such thing as non-con. There.Is. Not. Only rape.) just rub me the wrong way! You’ve mentioned most of the plots/story elements that get recycled regularly with little or no new input from the authors. Sometimes even the book like this can be interesting, due to the great characterization for example, but mainly I find myself skimming through these stories. This is where editors should come in. But, I think publishers aren’t willing to take the risk. *sigh*
Oh, just one thing, Sean Kennedy and Catt Ford wrote Dash & Dingo together. Sean Kennedy is the sole author of Tigers and Devils. ^^
Hi Lady M
Thanks for the correction about Sean being the sole author of T & D – I kbnew that but I was half asleep when I finished this post at 4.00 A.M. I will correct that right away.
I think we should have an Out for You trope 🙂 I would read that because although I didn’t like GFY when it first appeared (Mary M was the one who conned me into reading these books) some of the stories grew on me, except for the fact that it could never happen. 🙂
I don’t think M/M authors realize that if/when we all get bored and stop buying these books in record numbers that will hit them in the royalty payments.
*Off to change the T & D mention.* lol.
I just read Rinse and Repeat which has a Groundhog Day-like theme. Really enjoyed it and I’d not read that before. So no, I don’t think so and there are always going to be readers who want the same old same old and will turn away from something new. It’s why some people order pizza EVERY Friday, from the SAME place with the SAME toppings and eat tacos EVERY Tuesday 52 weeks a year.
Familiarity can breed contempt or give you a sense of comfort.
Of the tropes you listed I don’t care for #1 (unless it’s handled quickly), #5 unless you have a paranormal element to explain it, #8 but as a rule I don’t read many historical so it’s not an issue. (Always a but …)
To be honest I’ve never read a story (outside of yaoi) where a rapist/victim fell in love and if being raped is part of a characters background or trauma I’m okay with that. It happens in real life and while romance is fantasy, I don’t mind reality intruding once in a while.
So for me I’m not bored yet. I figure if m/f romance can keep churing out THOUSANDS of books for the last 40 years, m/m has a long way to go yet before readers get bored and there are new readers coming on board all the time who will find everything fresh and amazing.
I’d hate for authors to get all freaky weird just to make a point of “woooo, look at me, I’m writing about XYZ which is so out there”. Don’t go there authors, just write well. 🙂
Tam
I like different themes because I find reading about the same thing all the time incredibly boring. While I can eat a particular dish that I like more often than others, I can’t see me eating mac and cheese all the time. 🙂 If someone doesn’t like something new or fresh and exciting when they read a new book then they would be okay with the same old, same old but I think there are enough readers like me, going by the number of complaints that I see.
I stopped reading het romances years ago because I hated all of those old tropes, and now they are here in M/M with a vengeance with all the het authors who have migrated. If things don’t change I might just read a few authors who actually come up with new plots and ignore the others. Unfortunately, I will probably miss a few who have a lot of promise. Reading M/M for me now is like kissing all the frogs before finding that handsome prince.
Well you know my feeling on the whole “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” thing. It’s just like the silly “Deflowering the innocent virgin” in Straight Romance.
.
How many people right this minute can raise their hands if they are still with the person that copped their cherry?
.
Yeah life does not work that way. For many good reasons too. Anyway I know you have read many “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” as I have and I do not expect that to change anytime soon so here is my quick guide to making this as painless as possible…
.
1. Make sure the “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” character is emotionally distant from women and that he consistently keeps breaking up with them.
.
2. Make sure the “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” character maintains close relationships with his male buddies and he spends more time with them in sports or other activities where he can be with them in close physical contact.
.
3. Make sure the “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” character finally admits to having some past anonymous public sex with other men like a glory hole or a bar and maybe one or two drunken gropes with a buddy a lot like himself.
.
I guess writing “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” is an addiction among Gay Romance writers and so many are hooked but let’s make this less painful and yeah, what Wave said about some of those “Straight To Gay/Gay For You” implying being gay is a choice.
Ugh! That’s DNF right there for me.
TP
When I read your comments about how to make GFY stories believable it occured to me that you should write a story with these elements. 🙂 I would read it because at least the plot would be authentic.
I read many of these books where the straight guy goes from the bed of a woman one night and the next night he is ‘converted’ because he met a great looking hunk in a bar. Not only that but he is more knowledgeable about gay sex than the other man who is gay. How did that happen? lol.
This GFY theme seems to be so prevalent in M/M that I don’t think we’ll be seeing the last of it any time soon, but at least if some of the authors who write this plot take your advice, the stories would be believable and authentic.
My first question when I read that Wave is why did they not label it a Bisexual Romance?
You know me and the labels. If they are going to say they sell GLBT Romance then they really need to clarify which book is which.
I think that if the book is labelled ‘bisexual’ there would be an expectation that at some point the ‘bi’ protagonist may go back to his old ways in the future and sleep with women again.
If you’re bi I guess it means that you have an ongoing preference for both sexes, which is why this site only reviews books that are ‘G’ in GBLT.
Most publishers, except for a few that I mentioned in another post a couple of weeks ago, don’t label their books properly. I have no idea why.
As a bisexual woman, I get awfully tired of the notion that bi folk are indecisive and promiscuous. My wife and I hit the big 11 last month, and while I do find some men attractive (couldn’t write m/m if I didn’t), what ‘bisexual romance’ suggests to me is a story where someone may have to choose between two potential partners.
I agree with TP about the unlikeliness of GfY plots, though since almost all of us are raised het, at some point there often is a GFY moment, where a person realizes that there’s more to life than boy-meets-girl.
Lee
I’m just saying there is only so much “Deflowering the innocent virgin” I can handle and then the pig will go off.
It just gets a bit much. Mutual experience and knowledge both sexually and emotionally are not detriments to good relationships I swear.
Hey, Teddy–I agree, but I think the whole GfY trope serves a purpose–it lets readers who may not have thought much about glb in general see that a gay man doesn’t have to fit the Liberace stereotype. It was fun to write Walking Wounded, where the protagonists weren’t having to worry about being drummed out of the service or whatever–the problems were more prosaic.
What you said (#3) really describes what I had to do while writing Tangled Web. Philip needed a background incident because otherwise his behavior made no sense. If same-sex attraction suddenly activates, it has to be there in the first place.
“What you said (#3) really describes what I had to do while writing Tangled Web.”
Well Lee, you be smart and writely like that.
I only started listing those points out like that for a cheater check list because of the pain of the redundant.
My hand is up, Teddy.
Together 25 years, married 21 of them
I do loathe the “gay for you” trope. Now “Lez for you” is MUCH more common in my experience. (I know 3 or 4 women who had no interest and then fell in love with a woman) But male sexuality is much more binary.
Damn I just knew when I said that there would be one person out there. There always is. You unicorns always spoiling my rules.
Wow, I recognised all those themes *except 8 but I don’t read historical*… I hate # 1 and #7 the most. #1 because, really, is the secret always this BIG? Mostly it’s just a secret that can be talked about in any good relationship. #7 because really, how big is the chance that you get stalked? I read about it in books a lot, but in newspapers, not much.
I enjoy books by Stephani Hecht a lot, not because of the themes, but because of the characters. She can use a very cliché theme, and I would still want to read about it because I love the fun in her writing and the characters.
Hi Lucia
I’m convinced that No. 1 is designed to make the books that should really be novellas into novels. How else can you account for all the angst and tear jerking that take up an additional 100 pages?
One author whose books are all Big Misunderstandings, in more ways than one, loves this theme and her protagonists DO NOT HAVE SEX while they are separated, even if it’s more than a decade. We’re expected to believe that a very young man in his early twenties would refrain from sex for 10 – 15 years. I won’t tell you what she does to her paranormals. lol
Well you could get stalked. 🙂
If more authors would take the time to develop their characters and plots and make them believable that would go a long way to improving this sub genre. Some of the books I have read recently should never have been published, they are so badly written. Josh is doing a post next month about editing so I’ll leave that alone.
Very interesting to read about editing! Looking forward to that. Bad editing can totally ruin a story for me… I mean, I’m Dutch, I shouldn’t see grammatical errors. And sometimes wrong character names, hate that.
Good post, Wave! I don’t think the genre has lost imagination; I am always finding new things to read that surprise me…BUT, I do personally have some annoyances as of late with certain authors.
For example, I am tired of reading about super-masc-aloof-alpha-male being paired with wimpy-frail-character-flawed-clingy-sub. Really? That’s the best some authors have? I know it’s fiction/romance, but sometimes reality can be sexy, you know. *wink* Give me men that are real, accessible, and not packing a $5 footlong, and you’ll have me at “hello.”
Then again, my major disappointment lately is just the characterization of some men in general. It seems that they are just women disguised with a man’s name. I don’t understand that at all. I read some books thinking “men just don’t DO that.” So, those books get put in the “meh” pile and sadly don’t get finished.
But, if I had to list some of my current favs (not duplicating the great ones you listed):
Sean Kennedy – “I Fell in Love with a Zombie” (If you see this, Sean, PLEASE write more Zombilicious-lovin. You rocked my post-apoc world)
ML Rhodes – “Falling”
Jay Bell – “The Cat in the Cradle” (I CANNOT put this book down!)
JCP/Josh/Sean – “Petit Morts” (I wish these would go on indefinitely, these are simply amazing!)
Scott Sherman – “First You Fall”
Chrissy Munder – I love her short stories!
Ian Muise – “Last Snow of Winter”
Hi Brian
That’s called “opposites attract” lol. I didn’t want to continue complaining about tropes but that’s another one that annoys me. However if the opposites attract theme is done well (not the example you gave) it can be very enjoyable. It comes down to the writing.
About the “foot long,” I did a post some time ago and everyone had a lot of fun with it. Here’s a link. Enjoy! I think the comments are hilarious. 🙂
http://www.gayromance.org/?p=19224
Those characters are called “chicks with dicks” a carryover from het romances. Many M/F authors dust off their het plots and just change the names of the characters. This is why they bear no relationship to actual men. 🙂
Thank you for your list of recs. I have read them all except First you Fall and also Last Snow of Winter which is fairly new. I agree about the Petit Morts series and Sean’s I Fell in Love with a Zombie and those readers who haven’t read some of these books should go out and get them. Falling is a favourite that I have read many times as well.
I have to say – that while I agree with most of your tropes – I have to stand up for my genre – Where on earth are all these historicals where people are imprisoned or hanged? 98percent of the time? I don’t think it’s even ONE percent of the time.
In fact – I only know of ONE gay historical where someone goes to prison and that’s mine (Standish). 😀 Alex Beecroft’s Captain’s surrender has a hanging at the beginning, but it’s not the MC. I can’t think of ANY books where a MC is sent to prison or hanged – but let me know!
Erastes
Here’s what I said
I didn’t say that they were actually hanged but that historical romances kept emphasizing the consequences to the point that I could not enjoy the books. It was a black cloud that was hanging 🙂 (sorry for the pun) over the story and I suggested that authors de-emphasize this.
I see what you mean, Wave. Whereas with my lads they may even get as far as being imprisoned, but – as they’re the kind of men who risk their lives on a daily basis anyway – they don’t generally angst about it. They just get on with finding a way of escaping, rescuing each other and creating a happy ending despite it.
I always think that if you stand a good chance of being blown up by an enemy gun today, there’s no sense in worrying whether you might be hanged or not some time in the future 🙂
Alex
You do have a way with words which is why I love your books.
I realize that in historical romances the best that can be hoped for is a HFN, and I’m hoping that maybe in the future historical writers won’t emphasize the negatives as much.
I’ll have to think about this a bit but to be honest, I’m okay with tropes. What I WANT is good writing. I’ve been reading through a lot of things these days and finding that I’m not getting a good read for my money.
(And I’m not just talking about the m/m genre).
What I would REALLY like is a bit more separation of genres within the GLBT category. Sometimes I buy a book thinking it’s a mystery only to find out it really is erotica, which is fine but I wanted a mystery.
I’ve just read “Wings of Love” (I think that was the title) and it was a gay for you book. I didn’t mind the book but I wanted the writing to be more show me than tell me. Since it’s third person, I’d hoped for more action within the words but that I guess comes down to writing style.
I find myself having to take a risk on authors’ books because I don’t really know what genre or style they are writing in. A clear line of… this is smut would be good 😀 No plot, just smexing. And others, this is plot driven. :::grins::: Tropes included.
I obviously need coffee because I’m blithering.
Hi Reece
One of the issues in this sub genre is obviously correct labelling and I believe you saw the post I did about Extreme M/M where I was constantly surprised by a theme when I expected something else. Just yesterday another guest reviewer brought a book to my attention that wasn’t correctly labelled (it wasn’t labelled at all for the kink).
I totally agree with what you say about separating the genres. I love mysteries and when I buy a book that I think is going to be a mystery (because that’s how the publisher advertised it) and I find out it’s somethng else, I get pissed at the waste of money, even if the book ends up being an okay read.
The issue of poorly written books comes back to inexperienced authors and lack of editing. However, some seasoned authors are sometimes just as bad because they get sloppy since they probably feel they have a built-in fan base and they can get away with just about anything. I have been holding off on buying books by new authors because I have been burned too often.
I totally agree with you about there being a couple of overused plots in (m/m) romance. Every time I read something with insta-love, insta-gay or TBM, I start to ask myself why exactly I’m paying good money to read that nonsense.
I think the problem isn’t that imagination has left the writers per se. It’s more like these days there are so many more authors who are writing books in that genre who didn’t have a lot of imagination to start with. They find something that sells well and then they re-hash the same plot over and over again. They simply are mediocre to bad authors who happen to write m/m.
And then there are authors who are very, very good. Take for example Clare London. Her books are all very different – contemporary romance, thrillers, paranormal, historical … I read two of her shorts this month, How the Other Half Lives which was very funny and Threadbare which took my breath away with its bittersweet beauty. One of the meanings of literature is “writing that is so beautiful that it’s a work of art” and I was thinking the whole time that this little book certainly qualifies.
Hi Enny
I totally agree. Most readers have a very small entertainment budget, and when part of it goes to cheap rip off books that are fromulaic it makes them hesitant about continuing to buy more of these books. i think M/M authors believe that the exponential growth in our sub genre will continue at its current pace and no one really cares about sloppy work or overused themes.
I mentioned Clare London in the post. It’s always a pleasure to read Clare’s books because I know they are well written, imaginative, and she doesn’t give her readers the same refried beans.
Oh wow,thank you for this! I totally agree! …with a caveat. The het industry has suffered this same malady for decades, yet survives and even produces some good, original romances. I think the issue here is really *quantity*; as the M/M genre becomes more popular, more is written to meet the demand, and much of it is dreck as the odds are simply against good writing being the majority.
I rather hope that my writing is part of the “good quality” set, but that is for others to judge. What I consciously try to do is not perpetrate the tropes endlessly. Well…I *try*! 🙂
Hi Cooper
As you mentioned, the het romance industry has thrived and survived despite shoddily written, formulaic books. The reason I stopped reading het is because everything had been done and I was getting more of the same crappy product, so I thought it was time to go. Now some of those same authors are writing M/M and giving us what we don’t want – more of the same tropes.
M/M is booming now and over subscribed with authors who are just shoving product out the door. Obviously quality and imaginative books are in short supply. Let’s hope that the readers don’t abandon ship. 🙁
Hmm, none of these is really that big an issue for me – probably because I’m a picky reader. I read a lot but if there’s nothing new that interests me and none of the books in my TBR pile call for me, I just read old favourites (or not so favourites). But then I’m not reviewing books so I can pick and choose.
The thing that drives me crazy is the prevalence of vampires and shifters in M/M romances. It seems that for every non-vampire/shapeshifter story there is one of each :-(. I think I was spoiled for other vampires by Buffy and Angel (and Spike, of course). Not to mention that UHFE (i.e. unhappy forever) was built in to their storyline and it kind of conditioned me :-). So for a vampire to catch my interest, story has to have promise to be exceptional.
As for werewolves (and other shifters), as much as I’m waiting for With Abandon, With and Without series were the last books I read by JL Langley and even then it took me some time to warm up to her wolves. (OK, I fell immediately for Keaton but who wouldn’t.) The funny thing is I quite like other kind of paranormals. I have no problems with psychics or magicians or what have you. I also like sci-fi and world building – it’s only vampires and shifters that make me scream and NOT in a good way.
These are some authors with unusual storylines or original take on usual ones that I’ve liked and I don’t think they been mentioned yet.
Where Allegheny Meets Monongahela – Felicity Watson (you could say this is GFY with domestic abuse thrown in – only it’s something completely else and best M/M I’ve read in ages)
Facade – Zahra Owens
Nowhere Ranch – Heidi Cullinan
Finding Zack – Rowan Speedwell
Hi Kaija
As I said in the post, many readers like these tropes and it nmay be just me.
With regard to paranormal books (vamps/weres) there is definitely a large number of readers who love these books (myself included).
Thank you for the list – Nowhere Ranch has just been released and I’m looking forward to reading it and Where The Allegheny Meets the Monongahela should be reviewed soon.
Out of the 9 themes you mentioned, I don’t like to read at least 4 of them. Unless the author makes a good story out of it!
#5 is just unrealistic (except for shifters and mates and the like ^^), #2 is the same. I can’t believe that every runaway will end as a hooker. And what’s with all these homophobic cops? Is it really that bad? Every time I read a book with a homophobic cop, I get the impression that you don’t want to be a gay cop in the US (or wherever the setting might be ;-)).
Oh and don’t forget the never ending sex-scenes (actually this isn’t a theme, but I hate it, if there is no plot!)
It would be great if authors & publishers would take the risks to publish more unique books, because I don’t want to read the same again and again. But then again it is really hard to find a good book among the thousands of books out there…
Of the books I read I can name a few which I really enjoyed:
The Adrien English Series by Josh Lanyon (and yup, there are homophobic cops – but the story is really well-written!), Tigers & Devils, Zero at the Bone, the Cut & Run Series, and I can’t wait for the new PsyCop novel to come out! I also love the two books about Dino & Seth by Elle Parker and the Administration Series by Manna Francis (I just noticed we have a similar taste in books ;-))
And now I really need to read a book by Harper Fox ^^
Hi Julie
That’s tnhe difficulty. there are so many books oout now that it’s difficult to choose what to read and find something you like.
I’m happy you liked some of the books on my list and I think that reading some of Harper’s books may be a good place to start if you want to try a new author.
BTW I liked the books by Elle Parker – she’s a terific writer.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with a bunch of books having the same theme (mainly because I find that out of several, only 1 or 2 are actually good and the authors are able to make the plot believable). It only gets annoying when one author carries the same theme in several of their books – that tells me he/she doesn’t have much originality.
Manna Francis “Mind Fuck” and W.A. Hoffman “Raised by Wolves” are my most favorites series ever.
Angelica
You are probably like the majority of readers in that you like the themes and as you say, will only be annoyed if one author used the same theme in his/her books.
You named two of my favourite series and I wish that most readers will get them especially The Administration series which is free on Manna’s website.
Ha! It’s the DaVinci Code-plosion!!!
It’s definitely something to bring up, Wave, and you sure make a good point.
When I started reading m/m about 5 years ago there were a lot less book and they were often a lot longer. Since then the genre has boomed/exploded. Which in a way is a good thing.
Unfortunately this not at all uncommon. It’s like when the DaVinci Code was first released. Within a year there bookshelves were filled with books similar to the DaVinci Code! Why, because it sells.
Not only are many of these tropes common to romance they are also the things that sell (don’t ask me why on earth people want to read about someone being raped, though as I understand it, it’s a dark fantasy thing).
Many authors (and I don’t mean this as an accusation) built on the success of others. If they see that book A sells big time, they write a book with a similar theme to get noticed. That doesn’t mean the book is bad, but it does mean that a genre can explode until it’s a big been there done that thing.
With the m/m genre there is also the “problem” that the books are mass production. Hardly any time is spent on a manuscript. Hence the genre is not only flooded with book with above mentioned tropes, the quality is also down.
Unfortunately this will go on until someone comes with the m/m equivalent of the DaVinci Code 😉
Hi Larissa
So what you’re saying is that we’re seeing an explosion of these books because of the DaVinci Code syndrome? Everyone will continue to write these tropes forever or until something better comes along? lol.
I guess I’ll have to wait until something better comes along. 🙂
Well apart from the part where this is romance and these tropes have been around for a very long time I thing. But still, yeah, I believe if there is an author who write an incredible story that becomes very popular we’ll see similar ones.
There are really a pretty limited number of themes. When I heard that Charlie Cochrane had done an amnesia story, I mentally groaned–not that old chestnut. But… she made it work.
The writer makes all the difference. Are you sitting through yet another version of Uncle Fred’s epic pursuit of the Great Big Catfish under the bridge, or Moby Dick? Same storyline, different storyteller (and hopefully, different ending.)
All romances, at bottom (pun intended) are about two people finding love and making a commitment.
I agree with Julie about the never-ending sex scenes! I think some of the samey books would be less samey if they didn’t have sex shoe-horned into them, if that makes sense. Sometimes I’m in the mood for reading something hot but most of the time I want a good story I can sink into.
Wave I think you hit the nail on the head when you said het authors were bringing their baggage into M/M. I still read het romances but in a desultory way, just to see if there’s something new in the genre, and I’m yet to be surprised. When M/M first started it was full of excitement and publishers were taking chances with themes and books that crossed genres, but it seems now that M/M has become more accepted, it’s become less edgy. I’ve really gone off contemporary M/M because of this. Some books are so paint-by-numbers! I like books where the men are MEN, Aleksander Voinov’s stuff is good for that.
Leslie
I did a post sometime ago asking the question about whether readers thought there was too much sex in M/M books and the opinions were all over the map – from those who wanted a good story with little or no sex, to those who liked as much sex as possible in their M/M books.
I have commented in many reviews about the amount of sex in some of these books but this is one area where there is such a wide variation of personal taste that readers will have to find authors who write books they can enjoy.
Unfortunately, and this is only my opinion, I think that with the number of het authors who are now writing M/M the same tropes or themes that made me leave het romances appear to be prevalent here. However, as many have said, they don’t mind these themes.
Like you I hoped that M/M romances would be different and not a copy cat of het. There are some authors whose books are different and I have mentioned a few of them, but maybe as someone said, perhaps the sameness I have noticed is a push to keep M/M as mainstream as possible and not edgy.
I’d be curious to know the number of new authors vs. established authors who are milking these themes. Is it simpler for a newer author to use an established trope in order to have a “built-in” structure for their first books? Do they think that writing to trope will give them a better chance at selling their manuscript? I know this is a consideration in the movie biz – my sis wrote her first 3 scripts to appeal to a wide audience, and since they did well, she felt more able to write the more quirky stuff that is more her voice.
And then, like Eric Arvin stated, are some publishers looking for tropes that sell well and buying based on that? My sister’s screenwriter friends were lamenting just yesterday that the studios were only taking in projects that had a “guaranteed” audience – sequels, comic book or fairy tale adaptation, etc. Anything else was too big a risk. Is this true also for publishers?
For my part, stories with rape are out. I don’t generally go for GFY since I have a hard time suspending my disbelief, but that said, if I like the writing, I’ll read almost anything. Thanks for the provocative post today, Wave!
I thought long and hard about whether to comment and in the end, seeing the responses I’m going to. I may be the minority opinion but I think this post is so incredibly offensive and mean spirited that I’m really surprised.
I don’t think you intended it this way but from my perspective it comes across as kind of cruel. I get that there are many, many, many, many (many x forever) themes and tropes that are overused in the genre. I get that it may be annoying to read the same book over and over again. Hey, we’ve all been there. We’ve all read books where you go “I read that before but this was better/worse/the same as that one.” In fact some of those themes on the list are ones that when handled poorly will make me throw a book. But that’s the key phrase “when handled poorly.” In the hands of a good author, any theme will shine and work.
I disagree that the most prevalent theme is rape. The most prevalent theme above all else is romance. Anything else will find a niche audience and sometimes a huge audience. Even then each of these themes will have their supporters and readers. It may not be for everyone but that’s the point. While I personally may not appreciate rape and violence in my romance, there are those that do. If the book is pure violence and not romance, then it doesn’t belong in the genre. If the genre authors wrote one kind of book that appealed and worked for one person on every level, then there’d be how many (thousands? ) of angry fans for whom that one book wouldn’t work for them.
There is a certain homogeneity to the genre. However I think you’re missing the main point in that there is a certain amount of sameness and reused themes because that’s what readers want. You’ll find readers that hate some of the themes listed, all of the them or even none of them. Yes there are certain themes reused over and over but it’s up to the author to take that theme and make it fresh, interesting, and vivid again. It’s not the tropes’ fault, readers’ fault or even the authors’ fault that it exists. If you’re angry and dismissive of these themes it’s because you don’t like how the author has handled them and really the majority of the authors can’t get it wrong or you wouldn’t read and love the genre.
I feel like your post was meant to highlight overused and sometimes poorly used themes but what it’s turned into is a rant against the genre as a whole. If I was an author in m/m romance – even if I was a favored with the list of authors you adore – I think I’d be insulted. I’d feel offended and belittled. Even patronized. This is just how I view the post and no doubt I’ll be the minority opinion but I felt it was important to point this out.
I get that when speaking of things in broad terms, we all generalize. However I think you whittled down the genre of thousands and thousands of books, existing well before 2003, into 9 tropes that you personally loathe how they’re used right now. Not to mention many of these same themes are in books that receive 4-5 stars routinely on your site. I know that may be from guest reviewers and not you personally but I’d be careful with the wording and tone. I don’t think you intended to write such a rant or be so angry but it feels that way.
Anyway just my thoughts.
Hi Kassa
First of all, I’m surprised that’s how this post came across to you because that was certainly not my intention. When you write something, just as it’s hard to see and correct your own mistakes it’s equally difficult to see how others would perceive it.
I do posts regularly about topics around M/M and some are more fun than others. Many times authors write me when I haven’t posted in a while to ask when my next post is scheduled, because they have fun kicking my butt. None of them has ever said that my posts are cruel or offensive and I’m sure if they felt that way they would not hesitate to tell me.
The comment about the most prevalent theme being rape was in the context of extreme plots. This is actually how it read
I should have repeated the word “violent” before “theme” to clarify that statement and I’ll add that word in the post.
You indicated that the reason there is a sameness about the plots is because that’s what readers want, and you could be right, although today the readers seem to be weighing in equally on both sides. Even the authors who commented seem to agree with some of the points I made in the post. However the romance genre has been around for 100 years and these tropes have probably been kicking around for almost as long.
I guess my disappointment came through that I thought M/M would be different from het romance, and that those differences would be more than just having gay protagonists. I thought that new themes would be introduced that would be unrelated to those in het. Maybe my expectations were too high and somewhat unrealistic because this sub genre has become more mainstream than I anticipated
I don’t believe I belittled M/M or the authors, or insulted or offended anyone because I stated my opinion about some things that I thought could be improved upon. The points made in the post are only my opinion which surely can’t be considered that important. Is it wrong to comment on certain themes that are overused?
I made it clear that while I didn’t like these tropes I thought some authors turned them into wonderful books.
I have reviewed many books with these themes and have rated them between 4 – 5 stars, because of what I considered to be exceptional writing that transcended the theme. To me there’s nothing better than reading a book with a trope I have seen over and over and don’t really like but the writing shone and overcame my reservations.
In closing, I certainly did not intend to sound angry at the entire M/M sub genre and I hope that the authors, many of whom I admire, don’t get that impression.
Hi Wave,
While I can’t speak for you I never thought you intended the post to be offensive or mean. That’s why I said I was surprised. Clearly not everyone read it the same way but -to me- the tone is what threw me. It came across as dismissive and rather mean spirited (still does) but as you said, you didn’t intend that. It’s just how I see it. Just as different people didn’t see it that way and variety is the spice within the genre.
I think we can all agree that the tropes used are common, what you seem to be upset about is when these tropes are badly used. Which is in essence not railing against the themes themselves but the authors who do them badly. There’s no question that when done poorly these themes can be really annoying to a reader. It’s not wrong to talk about these, but in this case I think it’s the way you approached this particular topic.
As for differentiating this genre from het romance. I can understand your disappointments, what reader coming from that genre to this can’t? I do think expecting it to be radically different is probably not going to happen. When you do think about the tropes used, some are definitely prevalent in het while others are not. I mean hell… GFY is definitely m/m only. I also think some of the tropes listed are really specific to gay men too, not only GFY but also homophobic partners/cops/parents, etc. Additionally the trope about historical never rears it’s head in het romance either because who cares about the sodomy laws in het historical romances.
I think it’s not so much the difference as like any reader.. you get tired of the themes being average or poorly done. To me that is different than themes themselves. Depends on the reader I guess.
Next week I was going to ask why we don’t have more “effeminate” gay characters in M/M romances (not to be confused with drag queens etc)lol but I think I’ll shelve that for a while. I know that Teddypig is just waiting to kick my butt about that one because he loves his men to be Alpha.
I did remember that some of those overused tropes were strictly M/M such as GFY which obviously is not a het trope, as well as the whole extreme homophobia theme and a few others. However in addition to those we have inherited the het tropes as well, some of which are done well, but others not so much.
I just wish that some authors would take more time to develop their stories rather than churning them out as if they were on an assembly line. Lee Rowan and I think Angelia Sparrow made an interesting point about why that is, but regardless, I still think it’s cheating the readers.
I guess for the next post I’ll have to watch my tone to make sure that it doesn’t come across as negative. I would never dream of being condescending to M/M authors because I think some of them are dynamite and can be compared against some mainstream authors and come out ahead, and I’ve always said so. Maybe I’m just going through a bad patch of books.
Kassa, I love you! I agree with every word you wrote. Sorry Jesse, I really love your review page and I admire you for the very controversial discussions you start, but this time you really went too far in my opinion. Your post comes across as arrogant, insulting to writers and readers (especially the title question of the post) un-educated and intolerant. You say that you didn’t mean it like that, but you still managed to destroy some of your integrity with this post. I thought you have this review page because you love the m/m genre. When you are so frustrated with it, why do you keep up with the reviewing and discussions?
I have to agree with you Kassa, on everything you said so eloquently. I like a lot of the tropes (even if some may be considered overdone), especially if an author spins a fresh take on it.
And, I think it’s a mistake to make a lot of negative noise about the ‘evilness’ of non-con/rape. Rape in a fictional work is fantasy; a kink that many enjoy. Almost none of those that enjoy reading it in a work of fiction would want rape in real life – real life rape is a horrible thing that should be severely punished. But fantasy rape, with a fictional character in a story, is not the same…at least for those that enjoy that kink. To spotlight it as a terrible plot device, that absolutely no one in their right mind should read, alienates and belittles those that enjoy it, imo.
I totally disagree with you.
Without getting into the obvious problems I have with what you just stated here…
“And, I think it’s a mistake to make a lot of negative noise about the ‘evilness’ of non-con/rape.”
Every time Wave in this case has clearly stated it is how rape has been “worked into” the story without proper labeling or content warnings.
Scat and incest is also something that “some people” like to read that I personally do not find the least bit interesting and I would throw a fit if it started showing up in the books I was reading unlabeled or without proper content warnings.
As far as I am concerned if people feel that is a judgment call so be it. It is my judgment on what I want to be reading and not your call.
I’ll be the first to admit that I am not good at expressing thoughts effectively; it’s why I mainly lurk. And obviously I was talking about non-con in books, not in real life, just to clarify.
I am not saying you aren’t entitled to your opinion. And certainly stories should be properly labeled, especially for those that don’t prefer certain elements (and for those that do). What I am saying is that a person in a position that might be considered high profile on a well-read and respected site should be more careful with the way they express their opinion. There’s nothing wrong with disliking an element. But when that dislike morphs into a comment that could be taken by an individual as slamming those that do like it, then respect could be lost for that commenter.
I understand that there is not a lot that is original in any genre but some authors manage to take an old trope and turn it into something delightful and a joy to read. That is called writing!
When I read this I think of Jordans book Hemovore, that used a very tired out theme of the vampire and his human side-kick and turned into something unique. She put a spin on that vampire world, making it one-of-a-kind. Respect Jordan!!
Agree with you on the tired out plots. Have read too much GFY lately and I am really starting to feel like it’s a plot that doesn’t hold up. Another strong dislike is non-con (and I want warnings for that dammit, rape is not the same as non-con), even more so than rape, bc it’s so dishonest.
I have loved lots of gay fantasy lit I have read recently and I think more is coming (or I hope so!).
I’m still trying to figure out where all the non-con books are because I read dozens of stories a month and I haven’t found one. And I’m prone to buy stories by authors I’ve never heard of. A charcter who has been raped yes, but not non-con. Oh and I don’t count yaoi because it’s standard fare there. Maybe someone could list some? I always feel like we’re pussy-footing around the issue. We complain about a theme but don’t want to say what book it was. Are they all in fantasy and sci-fi which I don’t read much? I just can’t remember a situation with it in the last 6 months for me, or else I’m oblivious (which could be possible), or my interpretation is different.
Saga
In the quote I think you made my point that even though I don’t really like these themes a good writer can write an exceptional book around a trope that’s tired.
Like you, I think non con is dishonest but that’s mjust me.
Paranormal and fantasy are looking better every day and I have been reading more of these books to give myself a break.
You should check out Ginn Hale’s The Rifter series which Kassa reviewed this week.
I hate to also weight in on this as so many others have made many interesting points, but…
I know that GFY is unrealistic but I still enjoy them. Even though I’m very happy with my life now, those stories get me thinking about Het guys in my past in yummy sorts of ways. 🙂 It is fiction after all.
I do have a problem with romance books that are just a string of sex scenes with a little bit of story between them. If the story doesn’t create a strong enough of a connection between the characters, I can’t imagine them wanting to have sex that much. A bit part of sex is in the mind. These stories seem to fall between romance and erotica but they fail for me because there’s too much story for erotica and the sex isn’t hot enough for erotica, which I do enjoy reading.
When I think back to the books I’ve loved the most, they are the ones that have a memorable story and memorable characters. I read Patricia Nell Warren’s “The Front Runner” over 30 years ago but I still remember a lot of the scenes and characters (and I haven’t re-read it because it was so emotional the first time). Now maybe part of that is due to it being the first “gay novel” I read and my reading it at the point when I was just inching out of the closet but I think another big part is the fact that her books are so well written and have such compelling stories and characters. Marion Zimmer Bradley’s “The Catch Trap” is another book in this category. I also read it perhaps 30 years ago and it still comes to mind whenever the circus is in town. I am thinking about re-reading this one when I get the time but again there are deep emotions connected with this book in my mind.
There are many other books that I also remember vividly and I won’t even try to form a list because I’ll be kicking myself as I keep thinking things left off of it. But there are are also many books I recall because of how bad they were – don’t get me started on Zookeeper – because I have this problem that I can’t put a book down no matter how bad they are until I’ve finished it unless it turns violent.
So, I think that if the story is compelling and the characters are well formed a believable, an author can get away with a well-worn theme. A lot of myths and early literature get re-written a lot and sometimes the result is good and sometimes it’s crap.
I think Wave is talking about mostly about the formulas that get used so often.
The Front Runner and The Catch Trap were referencing other “types” of books of their time (The Catch Trap is basically a “coming of age” story in the first half and then a “family pot boiler” style story the second half sorta like The Thorn Birds back then) but yeah they tend to have a lot more substance to them but maybe that was so because there were so few and far between written then.
Teddy,
I agree with you. My point was that even an overused theme can be the basis of a great book in the hands of an author who is creative. I only tried to use those two books as examples of great stories and how great stories can stay with us a long time. I wasn’t trying to connect them with the overused themes Wave was talking about.
I think some of it is also how books speak to us where we are at the time. I was an avid fan of Alex Hailey (Airport, Money Changers, Wheels, etc.) but as I came into myself as a gay man, I lost interest in his writing when I was part of the way through Evening News and still hadn’t found any LGBT characters. Now that I think about it, that is one of very few books that I did put down before finishing it.
Well I have to admit around the time of The Catch Trap first came out it was not the only historical old world family epic romance just the only gay one. But you know.
Jeffrey
Are you saying that in your dim and distant past you had a fling with a straight guy? Really? 🙂
I agree with you but readers are split 50/50. I actually did a poll about 18 months ago asking readers to weigh in on the amount of sex they would like in these books.
One publisher told me why authors write books with lots and lots of sex – it’s because they are the biggest sellers. Apparently the more sex the faster the book moves into the Top 10 and the bigger the royalty payments. The quality of the writing does not seem to be as important.
I too loved The Front Runner even though it had an unhappy ending and The Catch Trap as well. It is at times all about the writing rather than the trope, but I wish today’s writers weren’t always in a hurry to finish their current book and move on to the next one.
Maybe 30 years from now all of the books that I may think weren’t stars will be lauded as gems.
“Are you saying that in your dim and distant past you had a fling with a straight guy? Really? :)”
No but there were straight guys I knew that I would have loved to have had a fling with back then.
actually, I just remembered that I did have a fling with a “straight guy.” It lasted a couple of years when the two of us were in the 11-13 age range. And those ages are not typos, I was a precocious child. 🙂 And I’m sure that is also TMI 🙂
Hi, Wave,
First off, I don’t think you’re ranting, and I don’t see this as an attack on the genre as a whole. I get tired of formula, too, which is why I don’t just read one genre. But the fact is, a lot of readers go to romance the way I go to a grilled-cheese sandwich and tomato soup. It’s a comfort read. If I pick up a mystery, I expect to know whodunnit by the end of the book. If I read a romance, I hope, FIRST, that that the main characters will be decent people for whom I want a happy ending–and second, that they get it. And I expect this to be done without too much dependence on what Siskel & Ebert called “idiot plots.”
But a lot of readers truly don’t care. A lot of readers don’t want to read any book that varies by so much as an inch from the formula they expect. If the story punches their buttons, they don’t care if the author has put a huge, teeming city in the middle of Death Valley. The payoff is Alpha Guy saving Beta Guy from death by sunburn, even if he’s a moron, and only in danger because he didn’t bother to take his sunscreen and water bottle. This is true for het romance as well. There are a lot of idiots out there in romanceland. Go read Amazon reviews of a book you consider stupid-on-a-stick. SOMEONE–probably the writers’s bestest friend–will say it’s the best book she ever read. The romance genre has those formulas because a lot of readers don’t want their expectations challenged at all.
And writing is a business. Most of us don’t make a living at it, but some writers decide they will (or they must, or starve) and the way to do that is to produce as many books as they can, as fast possible. The faster you write, the less time you have to cast a critical eye on your story. In an ideal world, paying the bills wouldn’t take precedence over creativity, but writers have mortgages and medical bills, and food is nice, too.
There are ‘plot generator’ programs out there, you know, and I’m convinced that some writers use them. They also have beta readers who love what they write, so they don’t hear criticism like, “Hey, do you know “Hot Buttered Buns” has the same plot as is the “Hot Cross Buns” you wrote last year?” These aren’t writers I read because writing has made me a damned critical reader and I get tough feedback. (Erastes is my favorite beta reader because she has NEVER sent me back a praise-only evaluation. And when she agrees with my wife–my first and best editor–I know they’re right, and I change things.)
I suspect that you’ve become a highly critical reader. You wouldn’t write reviews if you didn’t have strong opinions in the first place, which makes you, I would guess, at least 3 times as critical as the average reader–probably even more critical than the average romance reader. (My sister is an uncritical reader, and sometimes I envy her ability to enjoy even mediocre writing. A story has to be really bad for her to give it a thumbs-down.)
Your hit list… #1 is my least-favorite plot device. It’s why I got fed up with the otherwise superb Lymond Chronicles. If her hero had ever spent ten minutes in honest conversation with his wife and best friend, the series would’ve been a trilogy. I get exasperated with characters who don’t trust their partner enough to be honest.
#2.. I don’t read most stories featuring teen protagonists. Didn’t when I was a teenager, either. #3..Well, I did GFY, sort of, with Tangled Web, but halfway through I found out the apparently straight guy had serious yearnings for an older man, years earlier. It just didn’t make sense otherwise. He was genuinely bisexual, but since he was widowed there was no conflict–he was a serial monogamist. #4…well, did that once, sort of. #5, did that once, sort of, in the same book as #4, but it was past-life recognition and I think I gave fair hints. #6 and #7 .. whoops, did both in Ransom, but Davy most certainly did not fall in love with the rapist.
I think “noncon” is one of the nastiest weasel-words around and too many people use it to put a rosy tint on a rape fantasy. Why not use the word with the bark on? A rape fantasy doesn’t mean the person who has it really wants to commit rape or be raped, but… Oh, don’t get me started on rape as a way around ‘nice girls don’t.’
As for #8 and #9. Having had a reviewer complain about “dwelling on the penalties” in Tangled Web, I can only say that — sorry, I find the ‘okhomo’ historicals far more irritating. Every single person who has ever come out, myself included, has had to face the reality that there ARE risks. Even if one is not in danger of death or imprisonment–still a danger in many countries–one WILL lose friends, family, and often one’s job or home. My own feeling is that part of what can make gay/lesbian romance so powerful is that these couples are saying, “This love is worth the risk.” Depicting those risks realistically is a writer’s responsibility. If you read six books in a row where the writers put an equal amount of emphasis on risk, it may seem, by the last book, that you’ve read too much of it–but the sorry truth is that until the last few decades, anyone caught in a same-sex relationship WAS risking death or imprisonment–if they survived arrest. There are cases even today of gay men being bashed to death in police custody or in the military. It ain’t pink roses, but it is true. A writer has a responsiblity to the truth if the story is not set in a fantasy universe.
Since I’ve been accused of overemphasis myself (not by your reviewers) I’m really curious to know a few of the books you think overdid it–because I don’t think any of my historical characters forget the risks for a moment. They can’t. Their lives depend on it.
As for the homophobic cops… that, too, unfortunately, is realistic. Perhaps not in every place (I would hope not) but every military-style group–which a police force is–will have a disproportionate number of homophobes (many of them, IMO, in the closet to themselves, and projecting their self-loathing onto others.)
But seriously, if there’s an example of what you consider overdoing it in either #7 or #8, I’d like to know what you’re talking about.
I’m taking your blog with a grain of salt, but I can afford to, since you named me as someone whose writing meets your standards. I imagine there are a lot of writers out here, though, who are wondering what the hell they did to piss you off.
“But seriously, if there’s an example of what you consider overdoing it in either #7 or #8, I’d like to know what you’re talking about.”
Would it not be seen as cruel to writers to simply start listing out all the similar books that do use the same formulas?
I have tried that a couple of times and felt it was looked at rather poorly.
Wave is simply taking stock and making a general critical statement about an issue, that I as a reviewer, felt stopped me several times from reviewing every Gay Romance book I actually read because I would be seen as ranting about the same damn thing over and over.
Well stated. About time someone took up the writer’s pov. What you should also mention is that none of the m/m genre is “main stream.” In case you didn’t know it, even a huge seller like Amazon does not make it easy to find/differentiate between “gay literature” (snobs) and m/m romance. They are all currently lumped under “gay” and mostly under “gay erotica” if there is even a hint at graphic sex. This is wrong, but it is how it is. There are plenty of groups out there that are doing their best to censor/ban all of these stories. They already pressure publishers and seller alike, that is why a big house publisher will not touch a m/m romance story with a twenty foot pole and a room filled with attorneys. That is why even the heavy weight like Amazon does not list gay romance under its Romance category…you can find everything else, but you must go out and hunt for a m/m book. And there they are, the mysteries, the sci-fi, all lumped under “gay erotica.” Not fair, but REALITY.
Personally if I go to romance and search under historical, I would like to see all the historical by category…that means m/m too. So lighten up a little on the writers, would you? They are sticking their necks and their bank accounts out there enough already without having the readers stabbing them in the back too.
Give a good and accurate review, fine…just drop the personal judgments. “I hate this book because I hate cops..I hate historicals…I hate that the writer made the sky blue…” Writers cannot please everyone. If they write for a ROMANCE publisher, they have to write romance, however overdone, redone and same old that might seem to some of you. We don’t mind the setting and the character development if the writing is beautifully done and there is actually a plot line. Sometimes we like sweet stories and sometimes we like horror. I read fiction to escape from reality, not be reminded of it….that is why it is called FICTION. The writer does not have the responsibility to make it follow the rules of reality (for example: using condoms. I don’t believe many m/f romances talk about birth control and sex diseases before they fall into the sheets! and I don’t want my m/m lovers to either…once again, it is fantasy)
The genre has exploded because of some e-book publishers who really don’t give a damn about the quality of their material, they are in it for the money. You need some good Review sites to weed through the chaff. Reader reviews in general are too arbitrary for assessment of quality writing. Fortunately, good review sites are out there, such as this one, Literary Nymphs, FreshFiction and a few others. Like the big publishers, the big reviewers don’t really touch m/m stories either. So, do a professional review of a story that someone probably worked hard writing and hopes that someone will enjoy reading.
Just keep it authentic.
Amazon DOES have a ‘gay romance’ category, and you can ‘tag’ books as Historical Romance (in fact, if you have a minute, I’d appreciate it if you’d tag mine that way. That makes it easier to find them if someone’s searching by tag.
I’m afraid the sky is usually blue in my books, or some other variation, like partly cloudy with chance of showers… no alien planets so far.
Hi Lee
You make some excellent points, especially about the homophobic cops. I do know they exist because I’ve seen them in action. I’m a straight female but I have gay friends. My point in the post was that some contemporary books overdo this aspect of the story, to the detriment of the romance. I don’t like OH Homo worlds either but all I want is balance.
I love cop stories and of course in M/M the protagonists are gay cops so there’s my dilemma. How do I enjoy a story about a gay cop and his guy (or maybe 2 gay cops), without what seems to be too much emphasis on other cops in the story beating up on them physically and mentally? Many times I just give up or skip as much of the story as I can to get to the romance.
In terms of historical romances my point was, and I may not have stated it well, that all of the emphasis on consequences sort of took away my enjoyment of some of these books. The books were well written but I just didn’t want to read them again because of the gloom and doom. I do understand that there were risks in those days if men were caught having sex with each other, but rather than going on and on about it maybe the author should have made the point once or twice rather than restating it throughout the book.
I’m not pissed off at anyone in particular. I guess I read too many poorly written books lately around some of the tropes.
As for books with rape and non con, if the publishers would put warnings on these books with violent themes some readers like me would know to stay away from them.
I don’t want to get into naming books in a negative way because identifying any of them would make it seem as if I’m after a particular author or authors. I try to only name books when I say something positive about them.
I understand your point that writing is a business and authors sometimes do not spend as much time as they would like improving their product. However, they should understand that when they are selling their books they should give the readers the very best book they can, even if they have to postpone their next book. Once their writing reputation is trashed by a number of reviewers or readers they have to work twice as hard to get it back and it’s not worth the immediate cash.
Oh, I don’t think it’s a good idea to churn out books as fast as possible; there are several authors I avoid for that reason… but other readers love them because it hits their buttons, and some writers can write both fast and well.
I also don’t care for books that are essentially erotica with a g-string of plot. I do see a difference between romance and erotica–they’re both good, depending on what you’re in the mood for– but in erotica, sexual pleasure is the goal; in romance–to me–sexual pleasure is the expression of emotional connection. A good romance doesn’t have to have sex, a good erotic story doesn’t have to have romance.
I love this genre and that includes all the themes you’ve mentioned in this post – yes, even dub con or non con or rape or whatever you want to call it. If that makes me the spawn of Satan then, well, that’s your opinion. You don’t have to read those books if you don’t want, but at least they are there for evil people like me who do want to read them.
That’s the great thing about this genre. If I want to read a stalker book then, yay! there’s a stalker book. If I want to read book after book where the Alpha male has to rescue the hapless beta then, yay! I can. If I want to read any or all of the themes you mention, I can. That’s what’s so wonderful about the diversity of this genre and the marvellous authors who provide all these themes for my entertainment. This means that there’s something for everyone no matter our intellect or background; our likes or dislikes.
And I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Jen
Why would I think you’re a Spawn of Satan because you choose to read certain tropes? 🙂 If we are what we read then I would be the worst Spawn because I love kinky themes like twincest which KZ and others tell me is so disgusting, but I can’t seem to wean myself. lol.
As for violent themes like rape, for personal reasons I stopped reading them.
Reading is like food, movies, the theatre and other forms of entertainment. These are areas which involve personal taste and everyone has different tastes – we proved that when we all checked the books on our Top 10 list this past year.
I’m with you. There’s a sameness to a lot of books, a much of a muchness.
1) I Hate HATE the Big Misunderstanding. The whole “TALK TO EACH OTHER DAMMIT” gets thick. There are always misunderstandings, and you can build a plot on them, but deliberately ending every conversation two lines before it would solve everything is just cheating. Having one misinterpret the other’s style is much more fun.
Number 2, I’m sorry to say, is not as unrealistic as we would like it to be. 40% of homeless youth identify as GLBT (bear in mind, we’re about 10% of the general population). 25% of them are throwaways, their parents have thrown them out. And 27.5% of them engage in “survival sex” trading sex for food, money or a place to sleep. (stats from a 1999 study “Prevalence and Correlates of Survival Sex Among Runaway and Homeless Youth.”)
3? Not realistic for men. I’d buy it more in f/f. I only know one man who has gone from straight to bisexual and that was a deliberate act of willpower on his part, based on a commitment to equality of sexual experience.
4 & 5…Instalove, not so much. I know people who get married after knowing each other 3 months. Never worked out too well. I’m not seeing the stalkers. Then again, I don’t read suspense or too many contemporaries.
6) Sigh… I like dub-con, sometimes, like when someone is saying “no, no, no, honor, duty, no, no, no” while still squirming on your lap, kissing you and shoving into your hand. The only part saying no is the mouth. Or when the option is something much worse than an unwanted sexual encounter.
7&8 are called creating external drama. I’ve used them, and they work. But there are other ways too.
9) I don’t read cop stories for the most part. Most uniforms cause a clenching panic reaction for me.
I think anything can work in the right hands and with good writing. On the other hand, Sturgeon’s Law (90% of everything is crap) applies to m/m just as it does everything else.
“Instalove, not so much. I know people who get married after knowing each other 3 months. Never worked out too well. I’m not seeing the stalkers. Then again, I don’t read suspense or too many contemporaries.”
Don’t you make fun of my dating habits! It worked 2 out of 123456789… oh forget it, but it did eventually work. heh
Oh I heard that! I’ll have you know I am not cheap.
Mocking my mother, moreso. She was wearing a new last name from two of her four husbands, after 3 months.
Well your mother has very good taste in men.
She just wants to try every flavor.
Hi Angel
We seem to be in agreement on some of the points in the post.
Re the “throwaway kids” my point is that almost every story I read now about teens involves this plot. It’s as if one writer did a story and now everyone writing a story with a teenager has glommed on to this theme. That’s what I meant about a lack of imagination. I do understand that teens run away and have to do anything to survive but could we have a few different plots?
Re dub con that’s not what I mean – obviously this is some form of sex play. Re non con i.e. when someone says no and there’s no mistake about it but is raped anyway, I think that’s definitely rape.
Creating external drama is fine because every author has to do so. I was only commenting that there seemed to be lots of kidnappings recently in books. Maybe it’s a trend and will go away like menages. lol.
As long as I don’t have to read the books to which Sturgeon’s Law applies I’ll be OK.
Really?! Damn, that’s conviction. I’ve known couples that refused to marry, but never one that purposely gave it a go.
I just remembered that I had a friend once that came back out of the closet as straight. She had dated women only for almost ten years, since she was in her early teens she considered herself gay. But I only later found out that she found women safe because of a childhood trauma. Once she met the right guy, she came out and has only dated men since.
This is an interesting post. Looking over the books you listed as liking, I think I can say that what they have in common is that they are books with strong, determinative romantic themes but whose plots fall into another genre such as noir mystery (Snowball) or steampunk/mystery (W.Gents.)
I think you might just be tired of books that don’t contain plots apart from the romantic thread. I kinda understand because if there isn’t a plot apart from “will they or won’t they?” the characters often don’t get put through their paces.
And as an aside, earlier in the thread one poster suggested that publishers don’t take risks on books that fall outside the regular romance tropes. I write books for Samhain and Loose Id and publish other people’s books as editor of Blind Eye and I do feel comfortable in saying that that is actually untrue. Nobody wants to see unique MS more than editors. Truly. The thing is that there just aren’t that many of them available.
Hi Nicole
I agree that books that only have a romantic thread, especially of The Big Misunderstanding variety, don’t seem to do it for me anymore. I like edgy stories or something more … While I do enjoy a well written romance, I’m finding them less and less enjoyable on their own. It doesn’t help that many of the stories are in the hands of first time writers, many of whom don’t seem to get the right guidance from their editors.
I’m pleased to hear that publishers do take risks. They don’t seem to be able to overcome the problem of getting their hands on those MS they are looking for though. Kind of comes back to the point I made earlier that writers don’t seem interested in pursuing other themes because the tried and true has worked for them in the past, so why rock the boat?
My, my what an interesting topic you’ve started here Wave! It seems that there are a lot of differing opinions here.
Personally I’m okay with tropes as long as they are handled correctly and the writing is good. There does seem to be a lot of m/m out there at the moment that follows a particular trope, but has no actual originality to it. I do get fed up with reading the blurb and thinking “that sounds fantastic” and then the story is just the same old thing – My biggest hate is the “Big Misunderstanding” – I find myself shouting at my ebook for the guys to talk to each other and sometimes I just don’t finish the book because it is blown unrealistically out of proportion!
I must say I love GFY as there’s nothing like that fantasy that a straight guy can be turned gay – yes in reality this is probably unlikely 😉 – but its fiction and that’s how I view it, not real life. Tere Michael’s Faith and Fidelity is just one of the GFY I like.
I agree with most here about non-con, yes it is rape and I don’t want it in my books, or at least it should be called what it is and dealt with realistically.
There are tons of M/M authors that use these tropes and make them “delightful” as you say, but again there seems to be authors that churn out story after story which is exactly the same as the last just using different names for the characters. I’ve started to avoid these authors unless a bokk get a particularly good review.
My favorite m/m books are as follows and each one of these I’ve read at least twice because they were original, the characters are memorable and they are just written wonderfully!
1. Bareback – Chris Owen
2. I’ll be you’re Drill Soldier – Crystal Rose (soooooo funny!! Please write more Crystal!)
3. 9-1-1 – Chris Owen
4. Nightrunners Series – Lynn Flewelling (love this series!!)
5. Keeping Promise Rock – Amy Lane ( I laughed, I cryed – amazing!)
6.At Pipers Point – Ethan Day
7.All J L Langley!
8.All Josh Lanyon (addicted what can I say!)
9.Soul Mates Series – Jourdan Lane
10. Dark Horse – Kate Sherwood
OMG I could go on – I feel like I need to apologise to some of the authors I’ve missed! There are a lot of good authors out there and every now and then a gem of a story pops up that makes me go wow. I must admit I don’t really mind whether the story is a mystery, paranormal, contemporary, historical etc as long as it’s well written.
Anyway great post Wave, I so do love you’re rants and they always get me wanting to post even though I don’t do it often! Can I also say I love Cole – every post I read of his makes me smile 🙂 Especially when Ethan enters into the debate….so funny.
Hi Stace
I’m slowly getting to all the comments.
I too love GFY, it’s just that there’s so much of it now and most of the plots are so far fetched or similar that I go ‘Oh No.’
I think I mentioned in my comments that I would love for some of these themes/tropes to be done well, and what I’m complaining about is that much of the time when in the hands of someone who really only cares about pumping out as many books as possible the quality goes down to the point that some of these books should be DNF. Unfortunately even if I didn’t want to finish them, because I’m doing reviews on them I have to.
I think all of the books you mentioned are my favourites as well – the only one I haven’t read is Dark Horse and that’s only because of time. I have to mention how much I loved I’ll Be Your Drill, Soldier which I reviewed over a year ago, and I only mention it because this writer was unknown to me. I wish she would write another book but so far I haven’t seen anything else by her.
I’m glad you enjoyed the post. I might have overstated a few things but I’m human and sometimes the frustration gets to me.
Cole will be pleased to be loved by you. lol.
Stace,
I have a fan! I have a fan!
Thank you, and I agree, I love all of the books that you’ve mentioned as well. 🙂 Although, I’m sure I can find it if I really hunt, but where can I buy the Crystal Rose book, I can’t ever seem to find it when I remember to look for it?
I get tired off paying full price for a developing author. Why should I pay the same for a mediocre story from an unknown as a popular writer’s back list?
This may seem off topic but the problem is not the trope, but the writing. Granted there are tropes that an individual is bored with or offended by, but the trope works for some otherwise it wouldn’t be a “trope”.
For all that Harlequin romances get bagged on- they do serve a purpose. They provide a venue for authors to develop their craft at a discounted price to the audience. There is no bait and switch, the buyer knows they are getting developing writers some better than others. Most of HET best selling authors start at this level until they prove themselves.
E-books don’t seem to have this system. I can buy ZAM’s, Josh’s, JCP’s… back list or a new author’s at the same price! Now some start with short stories, but they take more skill than a longer book and come off blah by the unskilled.
Since I’ve found this site I stick to the reviews and recs that sound interesting and the author’s backlists. Thanks Brian for the new recs, I’ll be researching them.
Wave, please don’t burnout!! Just read what you want because that will interest me.
Thanks so much to you and your crew!!
Hi Reggie
Sorry, I just saw your comment. I’ve been trying all day to catch up
Here’s the thing. while I do understand your comment, many of these same new authors have written stories that would amaze you. If I gave the impression that I was coming down harder on new authors I apologise. My concern was that some new and experienced authors seemed to be more interested in pumping out more and more books than in ensuring that the quality was there before the book left their hands.
I know you can buy books by well known authors like Josh and ZAM for the same price as books by new authors but publishers don’t discriminate (I think) and that’s a good thing because I have found many new authors whose books are gems. Harper Fox is one. Tere Michaels’ first book was extraordinary, so was Lynn Lorenz’s and Jane Seville’s as well as Crystal Rose’s. So think about that.
I’ll try not to burn out – right now I need a vacation away from the computer. A week in Hawaii sounds great right about now. 🙂
Puuulleeeassseeeee. I have never heard so much whining as you people do on this site. First of all, m/m ROMANCE is mostly written by women FOR women. There would not be a gay book in the book store if it were not for these authors. Second of all…how many of you have tried to write a good strong story, much less one after another? I hate to tell you this, but it has all been done…all of it, over and over, there are no new ideas in the human world. Third, most of us read fiction to get away from the real world…we want happy ever after…if I wanted to read about rapists, cheaters and serial killers, I would read the news! The whole m/m thing started in Japan (where it is a huge deal…with women) and the non-con issue is a huge part of the genre there. As far as one character being “feminized”, again the romance is written by women for WOMEN…who often imagine themselves as that character. Duh. m/m romance is not intended to be “gay literature.” If you want gay literature, read the biography of Ricki Martin. Boring.
Give the authors you enjoy reading a break. It isn’t easy. It isn’t main stream. It doesn’t pay much. When they read these message boards, it isn’t fun either.
I’ve done 8 novels and about 60 short stories/novellas. And yes, I am finding myself repeating concepts from time to time.
You’re right that there are no new ideas. There is one plot in all the world: stuff happens.
I thought the same-sex romance started with Kirk/Spock in the late 70s,moved into other fandoms and then migrated to original fiction in the late 90s early 2000s
I suppose that might be true in the US. Star Trek people were ground breaking in many ways. 🙂 In Japan, however, man/man love has been around for centuries.
Hello Rachel
You be interested to know that even though the majority of M/M books are written by women, 21% of current writers, according to a poll on this site are men and 9% are gender queer. Also, while female readers continue to dominate at 81%, 15% are now men and 4% gender queer. Of course this is only one survey but the percentages seem to be credible.
While originally M/M may have been written for women, as indicated above the change in demographic may require changes to the characterizations and plots to be a bit more realistic.
No, not really. I indeed enjoy plenty of romances written by superb women writers (would never buy or not buy romances based on writer’s genre only based on writing talent) and certainly genre exploded in the last few years, but gay romances had existed way before it happened.
Try Jim Grimsley’s Comfort and Joy if you have not read it, which is in my opinion superb romance and this is only one example of what had written before it happened.
I am as straight woman as they come, but personally (and again I know there is a demand, so of course there will be books written about it) I have absolutely no desire to read about chick with dick, none. I want to read about gay men falling in love, and I think by itself it provides me enough variety. I will just as happily read about Cole from Strawberies for dessert as I will read “Her majesty’s men” by Marquesate, where heroes are as manly as they come. I love Tamara Allen’s boys from Whistling in the Dark, where they are just regular young men, I guess they could both characterized as beta characters in a sense? Gay men come in all shapes and sizes and actually I am not complaining, I have plenty of books to choose from and as I said I do know that there is a demand for chicks with dicks, several online buddies of mine eat those books up, just not me. I usually want to throw those books against the wall. I do not want to imagine myself as one of the characters, I want to be able to emotionally relate to them if that makes sense.
Hey, I don’t write for women, I write for human beings. And I don’t like chicks-with-dicks. Gay men aren’t women. And Yaoi is not the wellspring of m/m. Yaoi seems to have been around about the same length of time, but it’s parallel, not (sorry!) seminal.
M/M did not start in Japan–at least, not that branch of it that I came out of. M/M itself is a designation that came out of “slash” fanfiction — the fan stories that thought Kirk and Spock should’ve wound up bonded to each other at the end of Theodore Sturgeon’s “Amok Time,” where the fear that he has killed his best friend snaps Spock out of his mating lust.
Slash — / — was originally used to distinguish stories with gay content so readers knew what they were getting. K&S meant friendship only, K/S meant sexual involvement.
A lot of pro m/m started out based on fanfic ideas. I can almost spot which fandom a story came from–there’s a lot out here that’s based on Sentinel, scads of Angel/Spike-inspired paranormals, and quite a few that are so far removed from the original inspiration that it’s hard to trace the degrees of separation. A lot of good writers paid their dues in fanfic because back in zine days, readers who had paid $20+ for a small-press publication were not shy about expressing themselves if the writing wasn’t up to standard. And the standards were often high because many fanzine editors were also professional writers and editors.
Getting back to Kirk and Spock, it’s interesting that so many people picked up on what’s suggested by that plot line–same-sex relationships were not new territory for Sturgeon. One of the first m/m stories I ever ran across was Theodore Sturgeon’s “The World Well Lost.” It’s summarized here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Well_Lost
Sturgeon himself was apparently het, but he certainly had a deep understanding of human emotions.
I just thought I’d add the point that you see so many of the same things because authors might not necessarily be aware of what’s out there, and how much. Us writers only have so much reading time – I have a full time job, kids, a life, and I don’t have time to keep tabs on what everyone else is writing.
I want to give you the best of myself, please keep that in mind. I want to tell you a great story because I love it, the whole building a world thing, and I’m not in this for money (there’s money in this? I’m still not sure of that!) so if it’s something you’ve read before, sorry, not my intention.
Hi Finn
Thank you for commenting and I’m a day late responding – sorry but there were way more comments than I expected.
I wish I had kept track of every single of the many blog posts in the past showing Josh Lanyon’s opinion that There are NO new ideas (though some ideas may seem new in this genre). The only truly original element to any story is the writer’s voice, style, and approach in telling the tale. Yes, he said I could quote him.
Not only in my opinion repetitiveness only shows if the writing isn’t up to scratch.
Just as an example Harper Fox’s books show that a) it’s possible to write a captivating book using an age old subject, i.e. Life After Loss aka “Life After Joe” and b) that it’s possible to find new m/m plots as shown in Driftwood and The Salisbury Key. I was very lucky to be able to read the latter already and I agree with TJ in wholeheartedly recommending this book (it’s my favourite Harper Fox book so far).
Hi Liade
While my post was about M/M tropes, I did say on a few occasions that in many cases the writer’s skill overcame such impediments.
As you know, all of Harper’s books including her latest, were reviewed here and so far she’s doing very well, in my humble estimation.
Whoa, this is getting nasty. Please, can’t we just agree that we all have different tastes? The world would be so boring if we were all the same.
Just because I can’t stand non-con, for example, doesn’t mean that people who enjoy non-con are evil. A person who likes to read about rape is not necessarily willing to induge in or tolerate rape in real life. I object strenously to non-con for all the reasons already stated, but I also object to censorship. Fiction isn’t real life, folks. Read what you enjoy and let others do the same.
Wave, I’m going to weigh in with the others who say it’s not the trope, it’s how well it is written. I can think of examples of most of the tropes you have listed that have made me say “blech” and other books with the same trope that I love.
I don’t believe there are any new tropes, just new twists on old stories. Like any other genre, there are unimaginative, poorly written m/m romances, but there are still many vibrant, fresh, beautifully written ones being published every day. Don’t give up on the genre because you didn’t like some of the stories you have read – remember all the ones you loved.
Hi Kiracee
I agree totally. Maybe it’s just that recently I have been reading a few too many books that are the former rather than the latter.
My problem with non con and rape is that there seems to be a lot more of these books lately and some publishers do not label them correctly, which means I’m surprised half way through a book by a rape scene.
I can’t give up on this genre because if I want to read a romance I would have to go back to het – what an awful thought (for me) 🙂
Yes, yes, I can’t say it enough, but I am saying it every chance I am getting, PLEASE warn me if there is a rape coming, please. I would never say that people who enjoy rape fantasies are evil people (what a bizarre thought in the first place to call somebody names for enjoying any fantasy, not just rape fantasy), however I HATE and yes, I know I said it many times before, HATE when one hero rapes another and they fall in love. Please publishers do be kind and find a way to warn me about this trope I want to make sure that I will not spent a cent of my money on the books which have this trope. I will even settle for more general warning that rape is coming, even though I have no problem if story is dealing with the rape done to one of the guys by somebody else. I mean, I do think that it became very overused, but I certainly read stories which dealt with it as trauma that i liked.
I debated whether or not to leap into the fray of this topic, but thought about it from my perspective as a reader and not an author. And on that, I can say this: I have far too little time to read all the books I want to read. From where I sit, there are many, many great, original books out there and well-done ones that are variations on an age-old theme. The problem, to me, is not mediocrity or recycling tropes, but in using your best judgment when figuring out what you want to read next. There will always be bad books, bad writers, bad whatever-art-form-you-care-to-name, but I don’t think there is a trend toward mediocrity or unoriginality in the genre. My towering TBR stack and pages of Kindle purchases I can’t wait to get to tells me otherwise. You fail to mention a whole host of authors whose work is fresh and original and worthy of praise (PA Brown, AJ LLewellyn, ZA Maxfield, Lesli Richardson, Neil Plakcy, Anthony Bidulka, Dorien Grey, Alan Chin, and many more…and now I’m going to feel bad because I left someone out I should have mentioned). I guess my point is why harp on the negative when there is so much positive to bring to light in this genre?
Hi Rick
I did say that in the post, several times, that many of these tropes have been made into incredible books in the hands of a writer with imagination.. The problem is that the converse is also true.
I mentioned a few authors even though I didn’t want to do so because I knew it would get me into trouble, since I was sure to leave out a ton of writers, yourself included.
Exactly the point I just made to you.
I praise this sub genre and its authors all the time. You only have to check the posts. However I am a reader too, and as such from time to time I express opinions that may not please some authors or readers.
I’m a bit late to this party, but… wow! What a response!
I’ve written most of the themes mentioned above. Didn’t realize at the time they were considered cliche – but then, I don’t read a lot of other authors’ books, mostly because I don’t have time.
I do, however, try to stay away from established trends, because they come and go. I don’t write paranormal or historical, and I probably never will. Contemporary is my true niche, and I’m happy staying there.
This is an interesting post, in that it’s made me take a look at why I’ve chosen the themes that have shown up in my work. Bottom line, it’s because they interest me, and because I think I can say something new about them. But perhaps what I have to say doesn’t sound so new to someone who reads as much as you do, Wave! 😉
sorry Cat, but historical is probably the oldest form of the romance genre. Many of us find contemporary simply boring. The “trend” of paranormal (actually supernatural if talking about vampires/werewolves…paranormal is ghosts/psychics) has gone out of control. Enough with the vampires already!
Sorry you find the contemporary boring, Rachel. Maybe you just haven’t been reading the right authors! 🙂
Hi Cat
Thank you for commenting.
This post was not intended to single out specific authors except themes in M/M books. Some reviewers read a lot of these books and of course we will encounter the same themes all the time. Bottom line, other than not wanting to read a few violent tropes my issue is when the current themes are not done well.
From my personal experience I have rated both of your most recent EC books highly because I felt that they deserved it. Of course I’m just one reviewer, but I love your characterizations most of all, which to me almost always trump tropes. 🙂
Oh, I know you weren’t singling out any particular authors, Wave. I was just trying to give you my take on the matter.
Thanks for your kind words about my characters. I like them too. 🙂
Interesting post. Like a few posters here, I am not bothered by tropes as much as the writing. And even then, it could just be that the writing style/voice/characterization isn’t my cuppa.
I have more issues with editing in m/m books. Tropes can (and should be) repeated – there are some tropes I will read over and over again – it all depends on the writers and their skills, where they decide to take their characters.
I’m probably repeating myself yet again, but to me, the number one issue of the m/m genre is pushing unedited or unpolished books to the public. It hurts the genre more than anything else, IMHO. Mainstream or M/F romances published by established publishing houses won’t have this issue. I guess I might be in the minority when I say I’d rather have fewer m/m books out as long as they’re thoroughly edited. Slow down, publishers!
I don’t mind spending money on one or two badly edited books, but I can’t justify spending about 50-100+ dollars monthly on unprofessional works (which is what I’m doing now), and I’m not talking about the writing style, just basic SPAG. To be completely honest, I’ve recently bought a m/m series that’s so terribly edited I wonder if it actually saw the light of an editor. After this, I can’t see myself buying another 10+ books that are so unpolished ever again, especially for newer authors, no matter how fun it might be. I just don’t feel right paying for half-finished works.
Hi S
As a readers and reviewer this is probably my #1 problem in addition to characterization. Editing is a huge issue yet some publishers don’t seem to want to spend the money to hire top notch people in the industry. Maybe with the exponential growth of M/M there’s a lot of catching up to do and there are no editors left, but it seems that we have been waiting a long time to have this situation resolved.
I don’t know if there’s an immediate solution because it doesn’t seem as if anyone is listening.
I’m sorry about your experience buying an entire series that wasn’t properly edited. It’s always better to buy one book and try it first before investing so much money.
I am just glad m/m romance plots aren’t littered with secret pregancies/babies and arranged marriages.
You never know – there may be MPreg. lol.
There are however arranged marriages – I just read one that featured this trope and there was a pregnancy. 🙂
Oh god Wave, scary thought really really scary. I have read of course some Harry Potter related fanfiction and shudder to think that it may show up or already did.
They BETTER warn me if this is coming to make sure I will have time to run and hide lol.
Hi Sirius
Don’t count on being warned. lol. This is one of our major issues – not all publishers include appropriate warnings on their books.
I think that as a reviewer perhaps you’re seeing things a little differently than the average reader (although we can all agree, no one enjoys poor writing).
I see this complaint about lack of originality or the downfall of a genre made frequently by critics. The critic/reviewer doesn’t realize however, that for every 100 books they’ve read or movies they’ve seen, the average person has read or seen maybe 5. And it’s precisely because the reviewer is doing their job–keeping us away from crap. In other words, you suffer so we don’t have to.
I don’t worry about tropes too much. It’s really all about the execution and whether the stories are told well or not, and for each person that hates the themes, there is probably someone who loves it.
Take the gay for you story. I’ve yet to read one, but I can see this being an appealing fantasy for some. I think some gay men have had the experience of having a crush or love for a straight guy. These stories just takes it to the next level usually with a HEA. The Gay for Pay (men who identify as straight but do gay porn) stars probably have a similar type of appeal.
I also don’t mind if a romantic story is darker. I particularly enjoyed the story “A Note in the Margin,” even though the character does have bad things happen to him.
I think we as readers, only read the type of stories that appeal to us. We also have the option of not continuing to read stories we don’t like. You, on the other hand, frequently have to read stories that are outside your comfort zone with themes that hold little to no appeal to you.
I think if you stepped back a little, you’ll realize that this is a young genre that’s experiencing some growing pains & the prediction of its death may be a bit premature.
Hi Sarah
You make a lot of sense. Part of my post was due to frustration about reading too many poorly written books lately, as well as my wish for this sub genre to do well.
The growth of M/M is exponential and that’s part of the problem, because there are many new authors who maybe don’t get the guidance they need. Even they have complained to me by email about the lack of help in editing or just plain assistance with their books.
As you said, unfortunately if I’m reviewing a book I have to finish it unless it’s really, really gross and then I tell the publisher that I can’t and why.
Thanks again for commenting Sarah.
Darn! There are arranged marriages between the male characters? I haven’t encountered that plotline yet in m/m. It is obvious I don’t read enough.
I just read and reviewed (for another site) “The Heart of Texas” by RJ Scott. It has a m/m arranged marriage.
Plus my all-time favorite by J.L. Langley, “His Convenient Husband: Innamorati, Book 1.”
Hi Lasha
I’m interested in your review of this book. Can you email me a link? Thanks.
Hi Jen
Here’s a link to the book. there a whole lot more to the story. You might like it. 🙂
http://silverpublishing.info/product_book_info/the-heart-of-texas-p-176
Thanks for the link. I am always on the lookout for new authors and stories. As it happens, I only just discovered Good Reads. My to read list is now in triple figures – mostly m/m.
I am willing to admit that I don’t mind gay for you or instalove, which often go together, but I always think twice about whether I want to read another vampire or shapeshifter story, and I don’t really like kidnapping plots at all.
I read mostly paranormal, shifter, fantasy and sci-fi… and while many of them incorporate the themes you’ve pointed out, they seem fresher because they’re wrapped in original world building.
But for people who like contemporary romances, things must get real old real fast.
Case in point… I just bought the book The Nourisher by Mark Adlers. It is about an 8 foot tall hairy alien spider (yes spider as in arachnid) who hooks up with a human. Now THAT sounds original.
Of course it could turn out that the spider is a runaway hooker who becomes gay-for-human and falls in insta-love with a homophobic cop who stalks and rapes him as a result of a big misunderstanding… but still… he’s a spider! 🙂
Hi Diane
Jen has reviewed most of Mark’s books and I must say that his writing is quite unusual 🙂 However I haven’t read this one and probably won’t because I’m afraid of spiders. lol
Thank you for bringing The Nourisher to my notice. The novelty alone made me buy the book. Right now I’m half-way through and I’m enjoying it very much.”If you can’t have sex with it, eat it.” had me giggling like mad.
Awww, Diane, thanks so much for the mention. I just write books I myself love to read. Simple as that. 🙂 I grew up on sci-fi and wanted to continue that tradition with an m/m flavour 🙂
Enny, saw your review. Thank you! Glad you loved Vernon. He will be one happy spider now. Do you know how hard it is to calm down an upset Priaxian? LOL
And Wave, you will love Vernon…I promise. He may be a 4 meter high, eight-legged, eight eyed, hairy alien spider, but he is ADORABLE. The sex between him and Drake his human symbiotic partner is mind blowing. And, no, people, there is no shifter stuff going on here. You will have to read to find out how they ‘do it’ LOL
Oh, and Wave, my computer issues have got worse. I have lost all files and pictures! Blurbs and galleys! Argh!
*hugs*
Mark
I like the “out for you” suggestion as a workable variant on “gay for you”. I would just add that sometimes people need to come out to themselves before they come out to the world, and also that people do change over the years, even in their sexuality. So while an otherwise unexplained “gay for you” is a situation not a story, it is possible to make a believable story from what otherwise looks to be unlikely.
Extreme female bitchiness is a trope I think is far too overdone.
But my main point in posting is to say thank you Wave for this site. I’ve got a list of tried and true authors I’m always glad to see a new work from (many of them listed above), but finding good new (or new to me) authors in the greatly expanded world that is now m/m publishing is hard, and without this site I’d be much more reluctant to try out new authors. It’s not even the money that’s the issue, it’s the time and emotional commitment to a reading experience that turns negative that I really hate.
Hi Allie2
I do understand that with so many more people outing themselves later in life that everyone evolves and that includes one’s sexuality. I’m hoping though that there’s a mix of Out for You and Gay For You stories, to make this theme a bit more credible.
I totally agree. About 18 months ago I did a post with Sean Kennedy and Jenre about this trend, which was much worse at the time. This was because of a review I had done and I remarked about the portrayal of the young women in the book (which was well written except for this one flaw) as whores and tramps. Here’s a link to the post:
http://www.gayromance.org/?p=4784
I’m really happy that you find the reviews helpful and that’s a tribute to all the guest reviewers who do such an outstanding job.
Ah, Wave, once again a thought provoking essay. I’m not sure I am qualified to talk about m/m or gay fiction trends because, frankly, I read very few writers, mostly the ones I know I can count on for good reads. I think you are probably right for the most part. I recently read some books for an awards competition, and only one achieved mediocrity, the rest were awful (and the one I gave the lowest score to was one of the winners!) But I think everything you said could be said as well of any other genre, be it YA or mystery or het romance. Someone once said to me (at the time I disagreed, but now I think he was right) “It’s easy to write a book. What’s difficult is writing a good book.” As m/m became more and more popular, it was/is inevitable that more and more authors would write more and more cliches. The last time I talked to a cow, however, it was agreed that the cream still rises to the top. Good writers can still make all the old familiar situations seem new again. That is the whole point of honing one’s craft. Not all writers, however, are willing to take the extra effort to learn to do it right. It’s hard work and, except to a few knowing individuals, often not appreciated. But there’s nothing like that satisfaction of knowing I’ve made a paragraph, even a sentence, as good as it can be, and that a character is really alive.
Hi Victor
Thank you for commenting. I know how busy you are and therefore I appreciate your thoughts, as always.
I think that says a lot about what I was trying to illustrate in the post. I would not presume to tell writers how to write – I can only speak my truth regarding what I perceive as the quality of some of what I read.
There’s a lot in M/M that’s wonderful but there is some stuff that probably should not have been published. However, our voracious appetite for these books is part of the reason that standards are lowered, as everyone rushes to print.
Well said Victor! All it takes is that extra effort to do it right. What amazes me about some of the books I read is that with just a little more time and effort a really poorly written book could have turned out quite different.
I’m looking forward to the next Deadly instalment. 🙂
Day late and a dollar short, I know – that’s what happens when you have a day job and arrive at the party chronically late and tired.
Not that anyone needs my two cents – everyone here seems to have a firm handle on stance and opinion. But I do want to make a couple of quick points.
While there’s a bit of snark factor in the post, the overall thrust of it, that gay romance, and romance in general, could do with an influx of more carefully crafted, imaginative plot arcs, is more hopeful than mean-spirited. It says to me that gay romance has arrived and now has the variety of publication that other genres do. There are great thrillers and dreadful ones. There are overdone SF themes and sparkling, shiny new ones, and so on.
In a teensy aside on one of the tropes, I’d like to make a distinction between insta-love and insta-lust. Insta-lust, as a reader, I find believable and, in the right hands, workable. Happens all too often in real life – lonely people falling in bed together too fast only to find out later, sometimes in spectacularly disastrous fashion, that they didn’t know where they were putting their, er, feet.
Hi Angel
I guess I was a bit irritated when I wrote this post and some of that showed, however I’m happy that you saw it as more hopeful than mean spirited. Thank you.
I was trying to say that I do understand the problems of a very young sub genre and I do realize that some writers are struggling, and while there’s a lot to be hopeful about, some writers weren’t giving it their best shot. There are many exciting writers in M/M and I wish that more new authors would pattern themselves after those whose books have delighted us over the years. As a reader I WANT to read a book that makes me go ‘WOW’ in a good sense as we get more and more ‘sparkling, shiny new’ themes.
Thanks again for commenting and I’ll try to differentiate more between insta-lust and insta-love. lol.
Thanks, Wave. I thought over some of the points you and the responders made – in the Deadly Mystery series (very popular with readers) Tom is certainly Stanley’s GFY, but anyone who’s read the series knows that this is something he agonizes over at length. I’ve recently finished the 6th book, and the boys are still ironing out the details. Just as in real life. So, it isn’t that GFY can’t work, or any of these devices, but again, it’s taking it the extra mile. I guess what I’m saying, and I think in large part what you have said, is too much of it is just facile, writers writing from the top of their heads and not from their guts.
Victor
I do love a well written GFY book and Lynn and I laugh at Stanley’s tendency to doubt that he’s really gay and of course he tries to prove that he’s not, which from time to time gets him into trouble. 🙂
As I said at length in the post, many of our writers who are quite skilled, choose to go with the easiest course of action. And of course if most writers do that, you know what happens – readers get a bunch of identical books where only the names have been changed to protect the innocent. lol
Looking forward to the boys’ latest adventure.
This post and its comments were so interesting it warranted a long-distance phone call to tell me about it.
I debated commenting since so many of my points had already been mentioned. So, I’ll limit myself to just a few.
Wave, I understand your frustration and realize it’s more about poor writing than tropes. Depending on the particular philosophy, there are only 3 to 36 plots in existence. We’re all just trying to make our particular one different from everyone else’s. The success in that depends on skill. We just hope we have the skill necessary.
I do like “out for you” as a tag. A lot. I’ve seen it happen in real life. The men involved have not always been unsuccessful with women either. I know a few gay men who are still married to women. Gay life can be very complicated. Believe me, as a bisexual woman, I truly understand that.
I did feel I had to address the comment of MM being written by women for women. I’m a woman. However, inside my head, I see my reader as a gay man over 35. Everyone else reading is more than welcome and very much loved, but I figure the sorts of stories I write have more of the life experience of a person fitting that particular demographic. If the emails I get from readers are any indication, I do have a lot of older, gay male readers. It makes me amazingly happy when a gay man tells me I have somehow spoken to a part of him.
Now that I’ve probably offended someone or another, I’m going to go find some more coffee.
Hi TD
Thank you for commenting. 🙂
I have reviewed some of your books and I know that your heroes are usually older, which I think is a good thng because it’s a change from a lot of the twenty somethings. lol
The comment about M/M being written by women for women was by one reader who is unaware of the changing demographic in M/M. I tried to show her that while this may have been true when M/M first started, more men and gender queer readers and writers are jumping on board.
I hope that more writers will actually start writing “out for you” books. I look forward to them because I actually like some GFY with those elements.
As a writer and reader of M/M I feel that what is needed is not only better writing but better sub plots.
if you do the above tropes, hat do your characters look like? Are they ALWAYS Caucasian? Can it be interracial? Can one of the main players be a less than flattering man with a beer belly while the other might be very short.
I confess, I do like my men pretty but as a newbie, I am looking to make more stories with characters who are everyday men.
But, I ask the question that I even asked on my writers list years ago, must EVEVRYTHING be reality? Are we not allowed to fantasize?
I mean, do we always have to read about the issues of homophobia and prejudice? I would like to think that my author be multi faceted. Nothing wrong with being real but at times, I would like something like “Alex in Wonderland” instead of everyday realism.
I may be flamed for this, its okay I can handle it. I been in the writing biz only a year, I don’t claim to know everything but, I’m also wondering why do we all have to follow the same carbon copies of what erotica is.
Erotica can be whatever we want it to be. I know the target is realism but I deal with enough everyday. I don’t need always need that in what I read.
I may have went all over the place with that. Sorry… just my two cents!
Hi Sharita
thanks for commenting
Of course you’re allowed to fantasize. That’s what writing is all about. If you only wrote facts you might as well check out as a writer.
The thing is though I have difficulty when the characterizations are so out of sync (many others commented about that earlier so I won’t repeat it) they don’t make any sense at all.
M/M can range from sweet romances to erotica and each type of story focuses on what the writer brings to the table. I have read many M/M romances that have almost no sex and have enjoyed them immensely. Conversely I have enjoyed some M/M books where I have to step over the writhing bodies. 🙂 I think what I’m saying is that M/M is not erotica and vice versa but some M/M stories can be erotic, if that makes sense to you.
I did a post about 18 months ago pleading for more diversity in M/M which was not about just ethnic but cultural diversity as well as older characters, disabled characters etc. So far there has been no progress. Here is the link to the post
http://www.gayromance.org/?p=991
No one is allowed to flame anyone on this site. We are all polite even when we disagree.
I hope my comments are helpful.
Wave, I think this is a fabulous post for inciting discussion within the community — I wish I was able to join in in a more meaningful way, but as usual…
What I did what to say, very briefly, is that I think m/m is an incredibly vibrant and original genre. Even in the ways which old het tropes are taken and reshaped into something new and fun.
But, yes, within that inventiveness there are a lot of tired tropes.
But Kassa said something that I have to agree with, and that is that these tropes exist because they are forever popular. Amnesia, forced marriages, cowboys, vampires, etc.
A large percentage of readers still love those stories, and publishers would be dumb not to respond to that demand (as would authors).
I think there’s also a difference between something that’s always and in all genres considered lame-ass writing (plots hanging on silly misunderstandings or lack of communication) and a genuine trope like the much contested (and detested) Gay For You.
There are also the demands of genre — and those can’t be overlooked. One of the genre requirements of the amateur sleuth story is that an average person gets sucked into a crime and has to solve it — that’s not unimaginative on the part of the writer, it is the *definition* of an amateur sleuth mystery. It’s non-negotiable, so while a reader may tire of those kinds of stories, it isn’t the fault of the writer. It’s not the fault of the reader, either, of course, it’s just…time for the reader to move on to another genre.
As for homophobic/closeted cops, I guess I can take some of the blame for that in that I seem to have written the first m/m homophobic-cop-as-lover (and in gay mystery only George
Baxter got there before me, and we all know how THAT relationship turned out). But in fairness, I wrote it a decade ago and I find it ridiculous that so many currently writing in this genre are apparently unaware of the strides LAPD and other police and law enforcement agencies have made to at least try to accomodate gay officers.
Anyway, I could go on and on and on because I love the topic. Basically I believe that there are NO new story ideas and that the only thing that separates the tired and overused from the fresh and original is the author’s approach — in particular author voice, author style, author insight.
You and your trusted reviewers are in a different position from the average reader in that you’re reading all the time and you’re reading with an eye to trying to find something to say about many books that…there probably isn’t that much that can be said about them. So the sameness of everything you read is bound to hit you harder.
I didn’t find your post unkind or inappropriate at all. You’re deeply invested in this genre and you want the best for it. I think that comes through loud and clear.
and in gay mystery only George Baxter got there before me, and we all know how THAT relationship turned out)
“We all” minus one – even St. Google didn’t really help.
I find it ridiculous that so many currently writing in this genre are apparently unaware of the strides LAPD and other police and law enforcement agencies have made to at least try to accomodate gay officers
That’s a really fascinating subject/scenario: uniformed, traditionally extremely homophobic sections of society trying to catch up with the rest of society, particularly the difference between the official rules and real life. I live and work within the British Army who were forced by the European Court of Human Rights to admit gays to their ranks. This happened 10 years ago – and I am still waiting to meet (or even hear of) the first out gay male serving army officer (or soldier, but I work in a headquarter where practically everybody in uniform is an officer). Like in sports there are plenty of female gay soldiers/officers in the British Army, often doing very well.
I wish more writers tackled this subject. “Gay in the US military” is probably now a cliché and tackled fairly frequently. too. But I wish more writers tackled the current situation in the British Armed Forces; I wish that, too, became a cliché.
Hey,Liade. With a deep bow of respect to Josh, I’m taking the risk of jumping in here to suggest he perhaps meant George Baxt’s “Pharaoh Love” mystery series.
Two letters…
Thanks a lot
Hey Josh
Where were you yesterday when I needed your voice of reason as I was hung on a spike and nailed to a wall? 🙂
Did you mean inciting a riot and not a discussion? lol
I knew that this topic would be sensitive but I had no idea that so many readers and authors would be interested enough to comment. Boy, was I WRONG.
I must disagree with you on this
M/M proved that there were at least a a few new story ideas that were never one of the tropes of the “Romance” genre – GFY being one and maybe we’ll now have Out For You compliments of Marie Sexton lol. The Big Misunderstanding which I believe is only in M/M but I could be wrong. I think Insta-Love might also be new for M/M (and someone suggested Insta-Lust,) as well as all the homophobia in gay historical romances which of course was never an issue in het historical romances. I also do not recall reading stories about runaway teens in het romances who ended up as hookers. There is one theme – dare I say it – twincest – which I have a perversion for and I don’t recall reading about this in het. I must say that while small the number of fans is growing. Who knew? lol So I think maybe there should be a modification of the ‘NO.’ 🙂
Having said that, we seem to be using these new tropes over and over again without any thought being given to adapting them, and writing stories with skill and a genuine desire to give the readers the best story possible for their money.
The whole issue about closeted cops really gets me because I know that there have been changes over the years (you mentioned the advances made by LAPD) but writers do not seem to be doing any research and continue to dole out the same theme, that every straight cop is a homephobe. I know that some of them are, but seriously, ALL of them?
I would love to see more authors reshape old het tropes into something new and vibrant. That’s what I’m looking forward to and I know that many writers do so. I just wish there were MORE writers who were dedicated to improving their craft rather than churning out bad books.
I, too, understood where Kassa was coming from about readers being comfortable with old het tropes. My basic lack of understanding in this area is because I never was a true “romance” reader in my misspent youth a very long time ago. When my friends were reading Harlequin romance, I was reading fantasy and murder mysteries. Then I started to read het erotica which soon disappointed me and I switched to reading gay fiction. Now I have several bags of het erotica to sell on ebay. lol.
Thanks for saying this Josh. I was hoping that our authors would realize I don’t just do this because I want to kick someone. I do it because I do care about the genre – why else would I have spent an entire day and evening answering comments as well as part of today as well?
I’m just one reviewer and I know that there are at least several hundreds more who care about this genre and want to see it succeed. We all do what we consider appropriate, and I guess this is my way of saying maybe it’s time to do a gut check.
Thanks for stopping by – I know how busy you are. Looking forward to your next post. Ha! That should be a real ….. ummm … eye opener. (I was going to use a bad word but I’m a lady)
I don’t know how I can follow up on Josh’s comments, but I have to admit to having been part of another conversation about this post last night. We said essentially the same things as Josh. This is largely a review site for readers like me. I trust you to weed out the more poorly written and repeated stories/tropes. Continuing with Victor’s metaphor, you make sure that we’re reading the cream of the milk. However, that means that you end up reading a lot of the sour milk.
Perhaps the title of the article should have been something more along the lines of being burned out and tired of having publishers push mediocre material.
I, too, appreciate reading and being challenged to think about this interesting topic.
Hi Patty
Thanks for commenting. I know that you and the other readers who drop by this site every day do so because you know that the reviews by the guest readers and me are solely for your benefit. While I love our authors, they know going in that we won’t love everything they write.
Yes that cream rising to the top sometimes surprises me about the source – it could be a brand new author’s very first book. I still remember Harper Fox’s first book that I reviewed, and there are many new authors like her.
We have a wonderful sub genre in M/M and we should all strive to make it better.
Interesting post, Wave, and even more interesting comments that follow. For a moment I was threatened by the post. After all, I am a new author making my way in an established world. If you automatically assume every thing I write is just a rehash of a better author’s work, what is the point of me trying? However that was stupid on my part. Of course, I’m going to have a go. I might just write that amazing novel.
One point that stood out for me was the graphic nature of hangings etc. I don’t want to read graphic details of torture and rape. It does follow the trend though. If you think about old cop shows compared to Criminal Minds, it is unfortunately the public trend.
In my RL I read fantasy/criminal/thrillers and see the same tropes used time and again. It is rare to see a shining light in amongst the dross. I’m sure that unfortunately you see that here.
Hi Sue
I don’t believe I said in the post that new writers didn’t know how to write. I think I said that everyone needed to step up, new and seasoned, and write something new and different and vibrant with perhaps a new twist on an old trope.
I don’t like graphic violence – whether it’s hangings, rape or someone getting gutted – but I know that some readers love it. So what I would like for readers like myself is for publishers to label these books explicitly so that we’re not surprised.
I have your newest book Chance to be King for review. I bought it last month but haven’t gotten around to reviewing it as yet. I’m looking forward to reading the story. 🙂
Actually that was my first *g*. But many thanks.
I think maybe every author thinks they are doing new and vibrant. As I get more experienced it’s what I aim for.
I haven’t read much in the genre as I’m still reading fanfic, but the first one I did read was Bareback. I have measured every book since by that one because it had me so hooked.
Hello again!
I had to go look up my post on Clare’s Birthday Blog, and realized that in a way, this list of yours is the other side of the one you wrote for her a couple of weeks back… what you love about m/m:
http://clarelondon.livejournal.com/286008.html
I love the genre and I want it to do well which is why I’m always writing about what is wrong. At least this post will show that I really do love gay men which is what it’s about more than M/M.
The reason I started to read these books is because I have many gay friends. Now I use them as a sounding board when things in the books don’t seem to jell. 🙂
Another theme that is so over done is the hot highschool quaterback (or a hot popular guy) always falling for the nerdy guy. I can’t count the number of stories that I read, both online and published, with this theme.
Hi Brandon
Thank you for commenting.
You’re so right. I had forgotten about this theme which is all M/M since het wouldn’t have it as part of their old tropes. 🙂
Of course the quarterback would only fall for the nerd – another variation of the “opposites attract” theme. lol
I think I’m still too new to the whole M/M genre to notice the repeats.
Wave, I must have really great taste in books because I am so in agreement with your list, having read about half of those mentioned.
Having been a reader since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I mostly read M/F romance novels, and was getting so tired of the typical girl gets in trouble, boy rescues girl, boy and girl live happily ever after.
Bareback was the second M/M book I ever read, and I’m just now learning that Chris Owens is a female!! The very first M/M book I ever read was Cut & Run, and I was totally hooked. I thought to myself. If all the books in this genre are just half as good as this book, then I’m a fan for like. So far, I haven’t been disappointed too many times.
Hi Hope
You have been very lucky in your choice of books. The ones you mention are all great reads. I’m talking in the post about “the rest” which are a motley bunch, ranging from good to “should never have been published.”
Reviewers read many books that you will never see because when we write our reviews you take one look at them and decide to pass. That’s why our job is so tough. As someone said a couple of days ago, reviewers skim the milk and the cream rises to the top leaving the sour residue behind. 🙂 But when we find a gem we love to tell everyone. :
I hate to jump in here but I’ve been thinking about one point- the novella and short story form. I don’t see this form as a quickie novel, or an author rushing to get a story out there. These shorter forms, which I love to read and write, have the possibility of being spare and delicate, in the way a novel can’t; with a smaller idea, and careful, clean writing, I thing the novella form is the most beautiful. One of the things I love the most is the way the form leaves some mystery. A good story is finished in the reader’s mind, and for me, the novella and short story forms really shine with potential. So many novels I’ve read, I thought, the author could have easily cut 100 pages of fluff- but it wasn’t cost effective to make a paper and ink book of only 50 pages. We don’t have that problem anymore. So for those of us who really love the spare and quiet quality of the novella, I vote for more! I would encourage everyone to read them as the unique form they are, not as a mini novel.
This is an interesting point. Because I like reading shorter stories which have become much more prevalent recently due to the e-format. And I don’t think all of them are novels-cut-short, either.
But actually my complaint is that because e-short-stories are financial viable and presumably selling well (or else they would have died out by now), the traditional “proper” novel seems to be in danger of becoming a rarity which I think is a real shame. Am I the only reader to want to read real stories with proper plots and properly developed characters?
Liade
I don’t think there’s much danger in novels going out of style. There too many readers like yourself that love them and as long as there’s the demand authors will write them and publishers will release them. However, as I said to Sarah, sometimes I feel that close to 50 – 100 pages of a novel is padding for the word count. I love both formats and a well written novella is a joy to read as well.
I think you can have a novella with proper plots and properly developed characters; what changes is probably the amount of time the story covers. A sucessful shorter story can develop in depth an afternoon, or a week in the character’s lives, where a novel is needed to properly explore the changes that occur over long periods of time. The shorter time frame also means that problems are more immediate, or you can deal with a single part of a larger problem. I think the form, and the way you read, is different. It’s like holding a single perfect peach in your hand, compared to the novel’s peach orchard. But then, people who write flash fiction of 100 words, the drabble, think stories of 1000 words just go on and on and on, and need a sharp editor!
I should add that the time thing isn’t a rule, of course, but a generalization; we all know about Ulysses! But good grief, that man does go on and on.
Sarah I just wanted to say that I would have been reading more novellas if they all had been as good as yours and do not get me started on short stories :). Obviously I have read some good and some great ones by different authors, but way too often I had been dissapointed and when I was done with the novella, I was thinking eh, this one needs at least another hundred pages to give the characters and plot proper development and closure. Am I making sense? It often feels that writer tries to bite more than she can chew when writing a novella and give it some grandeur scope when to me it should not happen.
When I am reading Josh Lanyon’s novellas I always think that the character development and plot exactly fits the page number too, but more often than not for the reason I tried to articulate above I am choosing longer books, unless I know that writer is capable of writing shorter works to my satisfaction 🙂
With short stories I have had even worse experience, I am not sure I will need the fingers on my both hands to count short stories that impressed me during roughly four years I had been reading m/m. This is just my personal experience of course.
thanks for the nice compliment. I do love the shorter form. I think it’s a nice compliment, too, for a writer of short form stories, to have someone like the characters enough they want to know them more. They want more time with them.
Of course a reader shouldn’t come to the end of the story and feel confused by the character’s motivation, or worse, feel that they don’t make any sense, that their actions don’t match up with their motivations. I just finished a mystery, the first in what will no doubt be a long series, and at the end, I thought, who the heck is this guy? I didn’t feel like I knew him at all, and I wanted to look inside his heart.
Well, I’ll have to see if I can do anything about the current level of dissapointment with short stories.
Hi Sarah
Thank you for commenting.
I love both formats and while I can’t wait to get my teeth into a novel, many novellas in the hands of the right author, are equally satisfying. I even love the shorts 5 – 10K. Not many authors can do this well but when they do the stories are dynamite.
I agree that many stories could easily lose 100 pages and some of those are the ones with a theme of The Big Misunderstanding where the protagonists don’t talk to each other for 100 or more pages and each one goes on with his life until about time for the last 20 pages and the big HEA. I think a lot of books with this plot are manipulative and probably are used to fatten the word count. But that’s just me.
I wrote one of these- a novella with a misunderstadning as the major conflict- and have been feeling guilty about it all weekend! (But I still like that story.)Will have to try harder on the next!
Thanks for all you do. I picture you with a big stick and one of those bee-hats, with net over your face, marching off to deal with the hornet’s nest!
Sarah
I don’t have a big stick or a bee hat with a net over my face 🙂 but I really care about M/M and when I see authors not giving of their best it upsets me. Sometimes when I’m frustrated I’m too blunt but I have never been one to speak with a forked tongue – I say what I mean – not one thing on the site and something else in emails.
Thanks very much for commenting Sarah and I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to reply to this comment. Damn! I must have pissed off a lot of people. lol.
I had to laugh-I am one of the five people who didn’t see this post because I was out of town all weekend! Great post and wonderful insight. Hopefully the guilty authors will recognize their writing style, take note, and give their readers something worth reading :-).
Hi Kathy
You missed all the fun and jumping into the fray to skin me alive because I dared criticize some of the M/M tropes. I usually go where many fear to tread and sometimes I get singed but I’m like the phoenix.
I’m looking forward to better books that make the authors proud.
I read between 10 and 15 M/M books a month and there are certain authors or books I avoid since they tend to go crazy with the tropes you mention in this post. So, I can’t even imagine what it must be like for you as well as for the rest of the reviewers. *hugs the lot of you*
FWIW, I’m a total sucker for a good GFY story and, like you pointed out, Lee Rowan and Alex Beecroft write historical M/M that are a sheer pleasure to read.
While I believe that there is some truth in the (rather cynical) idea of “there only being 5 original plots from which all stories are derived from”, I absolutely believe that a talented writer (be in any of the M/M romance genres) will make me believe whatever he or she has written. No matter how many GFY, Historical or whatever books I’ve read before.
So, to me, this frustrating redundancy has to do with the glut on the market of writers who either need to work on their craft some more before they’re published OR writers who simply lack the talent to weave an interesting/charming story.
Hi Luce
You make some excellent points about the tropes and the glut of authors now entering M/M. I have been reading this sub genre way before it was officially a “romance” sub genre – way back to the days of The Charioteer by Mary Renault. Now it seems as if anyone who thinks she can be a writer is published within a few weeks/months. All she has to do is find a publisher and a lot of the newer ones are not at all concerned about the product – they just want to push more product at the readers. Unfortunately there’s a dearth of good editors because, with the growth of M/M as well as other romance sub genres, all the best talent is already taken so many books are scarcely edited, if at all.
If I didn’t care about this sub genre I would just take what’s published and not say anything about the quality.
Thanks for commenting Luce.
All she has to do is find a publisher and a lot of the newer ones are not at all concerned about the product – they just want to push more product at the readers.
*nods* With the rise of ereaders and tablets and ereading programs, the glut will keep expanding ever so more. >:(
OTOH, it’s a good thing that now we’ve got so many choices as far as to what we can use to read all the ebooks. Plus, the popularity of ebooks have added a certain patina of legitimacy to often-mocked genres such as romance.
Unfortunately, like you said, there are so many authors (some who are real writers and some who should be kept from ever trying to write a story) that it can take some skill to find a gem to read.
If I didn’t care about this sub genre I would just take what’s published and not say anything about the quality.
Thankfully, you DO care about this genre. I have to admit that I was wary of this genre after surfing over to a few so-called “review” sites that were nothing but vanity posts. I mean, there’s no way I can trust a site that gives nothing lower than 4 stars to every book that’s reviewed. That’s beyond ridiculous. That’s outright insulting to the readers (for trying to make them think that there aren’t any bad, i.e. poorly written M/M books) as well as to the authors (seriously, there are plenty of duds out there.) Remember when I said that I had hated an M/M written by Roxy Harte? A ‘vanity’ site had given it a stellar review. Which, looking back makes me think that either the person hadn’t read the same book that I did OR that the person has really baaaaad taste. But I digress . . .
Anyhoo, if it wasn’t for your site and about three more, I wouldn’t have become a fan of the genre.
Hi, Wave,
I enjoyed your post. If you’re still looking for books that don’t use the themes you’ve listed as a basis for the story, I’d be happy to send you anything of mine.=D
Hi Mara
Thanks for commenting. It seems that despite getting beat up and a bit bruised by some of the commenters, a lot of M/M authors seem quite positive about the post. I admit I was a bit frustrated when I wrote it because I had read so many books that were totally devoid of what makes M/M such a vibrant sub genre.
I have read your books and you know I love them – you’re not one of the writers I’m talking about here. lol.
I honestly didn’t know you’d read them. Thank you, Wave.
I’m not surprised you’ve received a positive response to this post. Authors are invested in making m/m a vibrant sub genre, and if readers aren’t happy for one reason or another, we want to know. A post like this can only benefit the genre, in the long run.
Mara
I hope you’re right that authors look at the post as a positive thing. It’s easy to get into making the same mistake over and over again without realizing it.
I love your books especially the characterizations. 🙂
I think there’s a rising problem with authors copying film ideas. I think I’ve read four books that have sounded eerily similar to films I’ve watched before. I don’t know if anyone else has come across this problem but its beginning to feel a lot like plagiarism, the only difference is that these characters are portrayed as gay.
Oh the fanfic favourite. Rip off a film script, bung in a couple of gay characters and everyone falls about telling you how wonderful your story is.
Yes, this makes me very growly.
Hi Loretta
You’re absolutely correct. More and more you’ll see authors employing this strategy as their idea cup runs dry.
I hope that the producers and people who write film scripts start sitting up and taking notice and maybe sue a few of them, to stop this practice