Jewel: First, I’ve got to say, that Vespertine totally blew me away. Thank you for that! And thank you both for agreeing to this interview. My inner fan-girl is doing the snoopy dance right now! 😀
Leta Blake: We’re excited that you enjoyed the book so much!
Indra Vaughn: Thanks for inviting us to chat!
J: A Catholic priest and an atheist rock star seem like such an unlikely coupling. How did you come up with this story idea?
LB: Apparently, on November 12 (according to Facebook), I was struck, apropos of nothing, with the idea of a priest/rock star pairing. I wasn’t even feeling especially picky whether it was a m/m pairing or a m/f pairing. I just knew I didn’t have time to write it! So I posted on FB with my little plot bunny and there was quite the conversation in the comment area. Indra saw it and sent me an email saying, “No, listen, I have ideas. Can’t you just imagine it?” And then basically lured me into the concept even more deeply by giving me romantic visuals of the gay priest and his yearnings. She suggested we might co-write it and I agreed.
IV: I remember Leta posting that status and my brain basically went HOLD UP. DROP EVERYTHING. And off we went. I’d never really considered co-writing something, so I’m very happy I came across that status (and that I’d met Leta at Rainbow Con that year or I probably wouldn’t have had the guts to email her haha!)
J: I imagine a lot of research went into Vespertine — what is the most interesting find you made during your research?
LB: Well, I certainly learned a lot of uncomfortable things about several rock stars while reading their biographies. There is one I’d actually like unread if that was possible. But I think the most interesting research for me was in learning about the various debates and beliefs around recovery from heroin addiction.
There are a few schools of thought and the one that I found most compelling and applied it to writing Nicky is a much more medical view of the situation. Rather than seeing heroin addiction as a moral failing, they see it as a medical problem to be treated with maintenance medications. There was an especially compelling article that explored the fact that while taking maintenance meds, many addicts live productive lives, but because there is this moralistic/judgmental view that they still aren’t “clean” if they’re on the maintenance meds, many of them choose to go off them, and shortly thereafter most of those addicts relapse and often overdose.
The argument of the article was that you don’t ask a depressed person to give up their antidepressants because if they were of strong enough moral fiber they wouldn’t need them, or ask a diabetic to give up their insulin because if they just had more willpower they’d be fine without it. It then went on to ask, “Does this view of addiction as a moral/willpower issue serve us well when going off these meds ends in death for so many of these people?”
IV: The most interesting thing I found is that there actually is a fair amount of literature available that explains the Bible in a way homosexuality isn’t condemned. Another really cool fact is that, even though it’s rare, out gay priests do exist and are accepted within their communities.
J: What was the hardest part of writing Vespertine?
LB: For me, it was purely emotional. I think Indra is such a fantastic writer and her first draft material is awe-inspiringly almost-perfect. We’re quite different writers in terms of the process of getting words down on paper. I usually go over a scene three to four times, laying in various aspects of it almost like a painter, before it looks anything like one of Indra’s first drafts. I felt very inept next to her at times and compared my process hers too often. My own insecurity annoyed me endlessly. But otherwise, the actual writing of the book was pretty easy. The characters weren’t inaccessible and they didn’t want to do things that gave me pause. (Unlike some of my characters in other books! 😛 )
IV: Leta’s first drafts are much more awesome than she thinks! I have to go back and change things, or add things all the time too ?
As for the book itself, it was definitely easier to write than some of my other work, maybe because of the extensive research I’d done before, or because it’s so much fun to have that encouragement of someone else being so invested in the work.
J: What’s the most surprising thing you learned about yourself while you were researching and writing Vespertine?
LB: See #3 above. I wasn’t pleased to find that deep of a well of insecurity in myself. I also learned to push past it, though, and that’s a good lesson. I didn’t let it paralyze me and I worked harder at accepting the way that I write and my process.
IV: The speed at which I can get stuff done when I really want to. I’ve always been pretty quick to get the words out when creative juices are flowing, but I think I learned I don’t have to wait for that while working on Vespertine. I now know can make myself write every day and get things finished if I set my mind to it.
J: Random question: Do you tend to judge a book by its cover?
LB: Yes. I’m a huge impulse buyer and almost never read reviews for a book before purchasing it. I’m all about the cover and the first few lines of the blurb.
IV: Very rarely. I go by recommendations of friends, or by a good blurb, but if it’s an exceptionally pretty cover I’ll go out of my way to get a paperback version too.
J: In a co-authored book, like Vespertine, how do you split the writing between yourselves?
LB: In this case, I wrote Nicky (the rock star) and Indra wrote Jasper (the priest). I have another co-writing project, though, and we both write both points of view. We just write in and around each other according to the outline we have. It works better for us on that project because our styles are pretty different and so it is better to merge them than to shift abruptly from one to the other. Indra and I have complimentary styles, I think.
J: Do you find it more difficult or easier to write with a partner?
LB: Probably a little bit of both. But it’s a lot of fun! I like having someone to bounce ideas off of who is just as invested as I am. With other books, I have people who can be sounding boards, but most of the time they haven’t read what’s already written and they don’t actually have a dog in the fight. With co-writing, you can talk a problem or snag out with someone who really cares a lot and who is intimately familiar with every line of the book up to that point. On the flip side, you can’t just do whatever you want. You have to come to an agreement.
IV: Like Leta said, it’s definitely a huge encouragement to have someone be so invested in the same work. On the other hand, you can’t always keep on going when you’re in the zone. Sometimes you have to stop writing because you need details your co-writer has to completely in the other point of view.
J: I don’t suppose you two are considering a book for Sez?
LB: * happy grin * Why? Would you like a book on Sez? Because we might just be planning one. Maybe. 😉
IV: *innocent whistle*
J: The imagery of Jasper preparing for Mass at the beginning of Vespertine was so vivid, it was like I was there watching him. It felt so personal, that I almost felt like a voyeur. Was that ritual based on anything you encountered during your research?
IV: I was raised Catholic and when our (ancient) priest retired, we got a younger guy who was very into involving youth in the ceremonies. He’d invite the Scouts to come and take a look to see how it all worked behind the scenes. He didn’t perform the actual ritual, but he did show us all the different items of clothing. Even back then I didn’t believe in God (in a very childish way, I just didn’t understand how all those dead people could possibly fit in heaven) but the pretty colors and their special meanings held something almost magical. It’s something that always stuck with me.
J: Random question: Do you prefer road trips or flying when you travel?
LB: Back in the BK (Before Kid) years of my life, I preferred road trips. But she gets carsick and impatient, so now whatever gets us there the fastest (usually a plane!) is what I prefer!
IV: I’m fine with either. Flying with my three-year-old used to make me nervous because it’s such a hassle and people can be less than friendly when they see you coming with a small child, but I recently packed up and moved us both from the US to Europe. After that I feel like I can handle any sort of travel. 😀
Leta’s Nicky
LB: I think it was all of the above. My reading into the rock-n-roll world made it pretty clear that drugs have historically been an inescapable part of the scene and, in some sad cases, are used by management to “control” their charges. I suspect that Nicky, especially being disconnected and heartbroken, wouldn’t have needed much persuading to dive off into self-destructive behaviors. And then the drugs filled the holes, soothed his isolation, and met his need for connection to something. Unfortunately, it was like an abusive lover in that it was way more hurtful than healing in the end.
J: Drug addiction is such a heartbreaking subject. What made you take Nicky in that direction?
LB: Yeah, the research into the rock-n-roll scene made it pretty clear that it’s just everywhere, unavoidable, and I don’t think that Nicky is the kind of guy to be moralistic about using or not using. It just seemed like of course young Nicky would have taken this path, and of course he would have become addicted. Also, it was how he showed up in my head. I rarely make choices for my characters (odd as that sounds). They generally come to me as they are and I discover them as I write. He showed up a sin-drenched addict with a damaged heart of gold, so that’s how I wrote him. 😀
J: Blue Oasis is such a wonderful idea! Are there any places like that IRL that are run by the Catholic Church?
IV: I didn’t come across an example exactly like the Blue Oasis we created, but when I researched homeless shelters I did notice a lot of them made sure to point out they were open to all kinds of diversity, which is certainly a step in the right direction. And then there are organizations like the Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry and Equally Blessed are devoted to providing information and support for Catholic LGBTQ people and families.
Indra’s Jasper
LB: Aw, man, “Solsbury Hill” is such a good song and great for that scene! I wish we’d had that on the playlist now! Nicky was very into cover songs of older music (Postal Service’s “Against All Odds” or Boyce Avenue’s “With or Without You” for example). But the song I listened to on repeat for days while writing Vespertine was “The Greatest Bastard” by Damien Rice. The feelings/lyrics seemed equally applicable to Jasper as they were to Nicky. It’s pretty much their whole story all right there in one song. Indra had a different song, I think. I’ll let her tell you about it.
IV: That With or Without You cover is just perfect for them! Apart from that, the song I kept listening to was “Looking Too Closely” by Fink. Such a great song, especially for Jasper.
J: I love that both Jasper and Nicky remembered each other in their individual work. It shows just how connected they were to each other, I think. We know just how losing Jazz wrecked Nicky, but how did Jasper handle being without Nicky, in the beginning?
IV: Jasper went through agonizing guilt feelings while he struggled with making the decision, but once it was made, he went all in on his studies. He kept a peripheral eye on Nicky, but always felt like he did something he wasn’t supposed to, and eventually managed to compartmentalize his feelings in such a way, he convinced himself those feelings were gone. He was a priest now and any passion that remained would cool down in time. I honestly think he would’ve continued on like that, convinced he made the right choice, until the day he died if Nicky hadn’t come back. He might’ve been forced to do something drastic concerning Blue Oasis, but he wouldn’t have questioned his choice.
J: Lizzie, especially, captured my heart. She was such a wonderful character. What can you tell us about her background?
LB: Indra probably knows more about Lizzie’s background than I do because she was originally her brainchild, and we haven’t discussed much more about her background than was in the book. 🙂
IV: This is all stuff that might change if we ever do write her story, because characters change enormously throughout the writing process. I think she always felt uncomfortable in her skin, and dreamed about being a young lady instead of a boy. In fact, the name she chose comes from Elizabeth Bennet because she was so enamored with her story, and deep down dreamed of being swept off her feet just like that. That dream went away, because now she’s growing into her own skin and maturing away from the idea of needing to be rescued.
As for her background, she comes from a God-fearing middle class family that kicked her to the curb when she came out, was bounced from one foster family to the next, until she was placed with Jasper. I see great things in her future though. She’s going to be a strong and capable woman, and whoever she sets her sights on better watch out 😀
J: Lizzie is awfully taken with Lucas. Does she ever catch him?
LB: We’ve toyed with the idea of doing a book for Lizzie. I figure we’ll hash all the details of her out if we ever do that. Right now, I see Lizzie’s future as pretty open. Maybe she ends up with Lucas, but maybe she doesn’t. Obviously, she’s definitely into him, but I’m not sure whether Lucas is into her. I know very little about him, actually. I know he was at Blue Oasis once, one of Jasper’s first charges. But I don’t know if he identifies as gay or bi or what. I do think it would be interesting if he was attracted to Lizzie as well (and I suspect he is) but feels strange about feeling attracted to a woman because he identifies as gay. That might feel irreconcilable to him. Also, there is the age difference, which he might find a stumbling block, too. But I do like their dynamic and I think she could bend him to her will.
J: Do you find some aspects of your characters in yourselves as well?
a. If yes, what do you have in common with Jasper?
IV: I’m good at compartmentalizing, just like Jasper. I’m going through a major life change right now, and so far I’ve taken every single step like a separate journey, instead of trying to look at the whole. It’s less overwhelming that way, and I think that’s exactly what Jasper did. Once I make a decision, I stick with it, even if it ends up being a mistake.
b. If yes, what part of Nicky do you see in yourself?
LB: You know, I think this is the sort of thing other people who know me might be better able to answer. I feel like characters come to me and while I know, intellectually, they are from my brain, for the most part, they don’t feel like a part of me. So, perhaps characters are an author’s blind spot. Maybe there are things about the character that is similar to the author, but, in general, maybe we can’t really see that. To be frank, as soon as I start to see that a character is too like me, or that I’m processing XYZ event in my life via a particular scenario in a book, then I get creatively blocked. I think that some of the magic of it might be a certain blindness to how whatever I’m writing relates to me/my life particularly. So, yeah…I’m sure there are parts of me in Nicky, but I can’t say just what. Not the heroin addiction! (Unless writing is my heroin! Then maybe!)
J: What are you reading at the moment, or what is the last book you read?
LB: I’m currently reading a few things. I tend to do that. Let’s see:
1) The Champion of the Scarlet Wolf by Ginn Hale. Eeeeee! I love Ginn Hale’s work! I will never write sweeping, epic fantasy romances, so I find them the most enjoyable to read. I don’t nitpick or think about how I would have done them differently. LOL!
2) Marco Impossible by Hannah Moskowitz. A young adult book that is so far, so cute!
3) Tide, Feather, Snow: A Life In Alaska by Miranda Weiss. Research! For a book! Set in Alaska! 😀
IV: : I just finished reading Soulless by Gail Gallagher, which was an absolute blast and I can’t wait to get my hands on book two. And I just started Jordan L. Hawk’s Dangerous Spirits (which I keep having to put down because I tend to read at night only these days and it’s so scary! But oh so good…)
J: I would love to read more books with you both as co-authors. Is there anything else on the horizon?
LB: This is a wonderful thing to hear! 😀 There might be a Sez book and there might be a Lizzie book. Our schedules for 2016 look insane, though, so if these happen, it probably wouldn’t be until 2017. Oh my word! I can’t believe I’m scheduling out that far! But I’m thrilled to hear that you’d like more from us.
Thank you for this wonderful interview opportunity! This was fun!
J: And thank you both SO MUCH for the interview!!
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