<!–[endif]–> “It doesn’t work if the bad guys kill his mother’s uncle’s friend’s neighbor’s pet dog. You’ve got to make the stakes high.”
Steven Seagal
When Wave invited me to contribute a guest blog, I tried to think of a topic I haven’t already hammered into the ground: things I like in m/m writing, things I dislike in m/m writing, professionalism and courtesy, why conflict is necessary for plot, why plot is necessary for story, why story is nec — well, you get the idea.
I have a lot of opinions. You might have noticed that. I think I’ve got the chops, er, credentials to back ‘em up, but I know I occasionally seem a little…forceful. Not only does everyone not agree with me, some folks (how very DARE you!) object to my even voicing these opinions. The fact that I would rain on anyone’s sexy, sunshiny picnic with my demands for consistent characterization and complex plotting and nasty old conflict makes me seem sorta like…like one of the bad guys!
And that is my awkward-as-hell segue into today’s topic: writing believable villains.
Villains come in all shapes and sizes. The villain of your story is basically the thing standing between your protagonist and what your protagonist most desires. So sometimes the villain is pretty low level: an arrogant rival for the heart of the protag’s love interest or a homophobic cop. Sometimes the threat is more intense: a deranged ex-lover or a serial killer who has targeted your protag. Sometimes the villain is not even human: an impending hurricane or a slavering space monster or a gigantic white shark.
How you handle these different types of villains will depend on…the villain.
When the villain is basically playing one terrifying note — like the monster in Alien — the key is to prolong the mystery as long as possible. What the hell is it? That’s the most interesting question for the reader/viewer. We see the horrifying and scary results of its menace, but we don’t know what It is.
And not knowing, not seeing, is often the scariest part. Once we do know what it looks like, a lot of the suspense is gone — suspense is always one of the key ingredients in writing, Even when you’re not technically writing suspense.
So! Your protags are out camping and they learn that a raging wildfire is headed their way. We signify the threat by blackening skies and fleeing animals and singed bunny rabbits and crashing helicopters and old timers telling horror stories of the last time this happened back in the summer of ‘87 (1887, that would be). The trick is to hold off on showing that great blazing wall of fire for as long as we can.
And to be totally realistic in our depiction of the threat. Which means if your villain is a typhoon, you need to do your research on typhoons. And if your villain is a vampire, you need to do your homework on vampires. Just because the villain is supernatural, doesn’t mean he/she/it can’t be realistic. He/she/it should be as realistic as possible.
And he/she/it should stay in character. Which means the villain can’t be vanquished merely because that’s convenient; you have to make the reader believe in the solution to the problem. So four guys in a rubber boat chasing a great white shark…or sending it to Sea World to live out its misunderstood days behind glass…probably not going to convince the reader.
Convincing the reader is paramount.
The reader has to first believe that the threat is genuine, and secondly that the solution is believable. We all believe in twisters and evil politicians, but vampires might take a little more convincing. Although possibly not for an m/m audience.
Speaking of evil politicians…yes, they do exist, but they are a cliché, they are overused and overdone, so even while there is some basis for the villain of your piece being an evil politician or a red-necked sheriff, readers spot these coming a mile away and they’re a bit…boring. Unless you can find a way to keep them fresh.
Which leads us to our next category of villain: the low level threat. The nagging mother, the homophobic father, the arrogant romantic rival. These obstacles in the path of true love usually don’t threaten the life of the protag, but they do threaten his happiness and occasionally his sanity. You don’t have to kill someone to keep him from getting what he wants most.
There are a couple of tricks to writing the low level threat villain. First and foremost, the protag must not be too stupid to live. I mean that when Iago, or whatever the protag’s mother’s name is, starts spilling her vile lies, the protag must be smart enough to question and investigate. Ordinary people can do a lot of damage to each other, even when they don’t really intend to, so a little malice goes a long way — but it’s got to be believable. And part of the believability factor lies in sufficiently motivating the villain. Villains are rarely villainous for the heck of it. They want something too. And very often they believe in the righteousness of their cause every bit as much as the protag does. So Mommy Dearest sincerely believes she is saving her little boy when she tries to get him committed for doing those nasty things with other boys. And the arrogant romantic rival really is in love with the protag’s chosen one.
See where I’m going with this? Give these people their good points to balance their wickedness. Make the reader feel a little sympathy for them, even understand them. Make them human. They’re scarier that way.
And speaking of scary…last but never least, we have the high level or intense threat to the protagonist. Very often in m/m fiction this threat is known as A Serial Killer. Now, let me just say it and then you can ignore it. Serial killers are old and tired and contrived. ‘Kay? Now let’s see how to make yours better than the average bugbear.
First off, a mega-villain has to be sufficiently impressive — and yet, still believable. That requires research. Check out some legendary real life master criminals and see how they operated and the kinds of things they did. Avoid giving a mega-villain superpowers (even Darth Vader had his weaknesses). Bullets should not bounce off of someone unless they’re made of Kevlar. Most bad guys cannot turn invisible at will and slip right past the police watching our protag’s house. Keep it real. You do that by getting the mundane details right. Think of a good reason to have the police leave and the protag’s cell phone out of reach. Leaving your cell in the other room while you take a bath after receiving a death threat is NOT a good reason.
Also, again, the high level threat needs to be sufficiently motivated. This is why “crazy” serial killers are boring. It’s difficult to identify with crazy, and…crazy is also rather hard to capture. It usually doesn’t have anything to do with shouting a lot and waving your arms and listening to opera and keeping a pet parakeet. Although a crazy person might do all these things, insanity is more than the sum of its tics and mannerisms.
My observation is most writers overdo the crazy.
Very few people knowingly and deliberately hurt others merely because they understand that it’s their role to be the bad guy. The bad guys are as motivated as the good guys, they have reasons for what they do, and they’ve convinced themselves of their reasoning. We all need to feel good about ourselves — even when we are doing evil.
And this is the single most important thing to keep in mind when writing your villains: the vast majority of villains do not understand that they are the villain.
Very few people knowingly and deliberately hurt others merely because they understand that it’s their role to be the bad guy
It runs me nuts when Nameless Bad Guy grins maniacally at himself in the mirror in the middle of the night (because it’s always pitch black out when bad guys are ruminating) and proceeds to monologue to himself about how fantastically eeebil he is. And how he’s So Smart that the Stoopid Cops will never be able to fully understand and appreciate his Tricksy Master Plan.
Then he goes out and kills someone, leaving behind enough evidence that even Scrappy Doo can figure out the mystery without splitting up the gang to look for clues. Meh.
Okay, now I know why I am NOT an author. ACK!!! Too much stuff to think about. I think Scrappy Doo would be finding my villian pretty damn quick. Excellent points all and I can see where the villains I liked (well, not “liked” but you know) fit in with what you said.
My one weakness(?) though is where you said with reference to low-level villains: “Give these people their good points to balance their wickedness. Make the reader feel a little sympathy for them, even understand them.” I just can’t for the parent who is saving little Johnny from himself. I can NOT ever feel any sympathy or understanding for them because that is NOT love no matter how they twist it in their heads. That just makes them mentally ill. Maybe its the parent in me, but it just makes me berserk and I wish the serial killer would pop up and off them. Or that I could slap them silly. So I’m afraid that is one character I don’t think anyone could ever make me feel anything more than contempt for. Not that I don’t like reading books with that particular type of villain, it makes for a good story but I’ll never be able to feel for them. I hope that made sense in some way. Even serial killers I can feel something for their motivation, but not those crappy parents. 🙂
Vent over. Great guest post today.
I can NOT ever feel any sympathy or understanding for them because that is NOT love no matter how they twist it in their heads. That just makes them mentally ill.
I agree. How you play this one is you get the reader to sympathize or relate to Crazy Mom on a different level. So we see a glimpse of HER nutso childhood or we see what good care she takes of little Johnny, how she jumps in to protect him from bullies or stands there with tears in her eyes as the school bus takes him off to kindergarten on the first day…
See, we don’t try and convince the reader to sympathize with the appalling traits, we get them to see that she’s human too, she’s a product of her own upbringing — not that we let her win or run loose because we feel sorry for her, just that we…understand or maybe feel some compassion.
Or maybe we don’t even go that far, but we make the reader believe she is genuinely motivated and why.
If that makes sense?
And how he’s So Smart that the Stoopid Cops will never be able to fully understand and appreciate his Tricksy Master Plan.
HOW COULD YOU DESTROY ME AND MY BEAUTIFUL WICKEDNESS???
Exactly. The psycho killer gloating to himself is just the silliest scene imaginable. Not that the psycho killer wouldn’t gloat, but save it for the letter he writes the newspaper or the phone call he makes to the police chief — or the trophies in his apartment that no one recognizes as trophies.
Great post, Josh. Just a quick note to say I love your books and am looking forward to reading more as they come out.
Lily 🙂
Thanks, Lily. I appreciate that very much!
Wonderful post, Josh, and thanks for arranging for it to happen, Wave.
I’m not a writer, nor do I aspire to be one (I’m quite happy to pay you all to entertain me!). I think I was absent the day they handed out the gene for it and instead got double helpings of the one that wants to feed everyone. *g* But as a reader, I appreciate the thought process you creative people must go through to try and make us poor, addicted, devoted readers a happy bunch.
Several things can bother me when reading, but one of the most irritating ones is when I simply can’t believe in the characters. For me, having believability issues with the villain is just as bad, if not worse, than TSTL protags. I know that there those who have serious issues with Jake, but for me, he is very believable villain. He may be a lot of bad things, but I cared for him, shed a tear for him, smiled when he finally, maybe, possibly sees the light. For me to feel those things for the Bad Guy, that made a difference.
Thanks for keeping me entertained, Josh.
I know that there those who have serious issues with Jake, but for me, he is very believable villain. He may be a lot of bad things, but I cared for him, shed a tear for him, smiled when he finally, maybe, possibly sees the light. For me to feel those things for the Bad Guy, that made a difference.
Jake is a classic anti-hero. He has many good traits, many heroic qualities, but he also has a dark side. The fact that Jake redeems himself probably says as much about my personal philosophy as anything. I believe that people can change, that they can feel remorse and make reparation, that we all struggle with a dark side — but some of us are stronger or cannier fighters, and that there but for the grace of God goes I.
That’s probably one reason I’m impatient with flat or one-dimensional villains. It’s so unrealistic. A child’s view of good and evil.
Thanks for the kind words, Aunt Lynn. It’s my pleasure to be able to entertain readers.
Think of a good reason to have the police leave and the protag’s cell phone out of reach.
Thank you! I am so sick of all the cell phones either out of reach or dead in horror movies. No one ever charge their cell phone in those movies!
Talk about crazy ex-lover villain. How about villain who causes high level harm but at the same time, readers will feel sorry for them? I think Bruce Green in Fatal Shadows is a bit like that. Even though I was rooting for Jake and Adrien already (even though before Jake asked..lol), I kind of feel sorry for Bruce.
Talk about crazy ex-lover villain. How about villain who causes high level harm but at the same time, readers will feel sorry for them? I think Bruce Green in Fatal Shadows is a bit like that. Even though I was rooting for Jake and Adrien already (even though before Jake asked..lol), I kind of feel sorry for Bruce.
I fully agree re. Bruce, but IMO at the end of Fatal Shadows Adrien tried his best to match Bruce’s craziness. At least in my book agreeing to have sex with somebody you are 99% sure is a serial killer goes well beyond bravery. Heroes shouldn’t be TSTL any more than villains. Just my personal opinion, of course *g*
Yes, if the cell phone is going to cut out, that needs to be foreshadowed. If people don’t charge their cells, that needs to be established.
Talk about crazy ex-lover villain. How about villain who causes high level harm but at the same time, readers will feel sorry for them? I think Bruce Green in Fatal Shadows is a bit like that. Even though I was rooting for Jake and Adrien already (even though before Jake asked..lol), I kind of feel sorry for Bruce.
Yes, Bruce is one of those…we may pity but not pardon thee villains. He’s someone who has been badly injured himself.
Excellent post. “I’m Clare London and I wrote fanfic”…well, let’s admit right up front that one of the main reasons I ran out of inspiration and fell out of lurv for fanfiction was that there were no Villains! Or at least, not enough original ones. *lol* When the characters are already played out for you – however AU you write – there’s very little scope. And yet villains can be such a vivid and rewarding part of writing a story! This is a subject close to my heart. *cracks knuckles*
I like my villains to be, firstly, another character in the story. It’s just that they’re unhinged – but often only slightly. They’re obsessed by something that threatens our hero – they’re operating off a different set of moral standards – they can’t see any reason to refrain from getting exactly what they want, what they think they deserve. Even if Hero stands in the way.
I think my fiction is quite domestic, to be honest ^_^. But that’s the kind of villain that I like, and – as you say – we might actually understand, even if we don’t agree or even sympathise with him/her/it. Personally, I think that makes them all the more scary and, sometimes, all the more dangerous.
In my novel Freeman (coming Feb!), my editor gave a fabulous assessment of my villain, how he appeared to her. There are no guns or knives or psychotic episodes – he’s just selfish, greedy and cowardly. He’s okay with very bad stuff so long as he stays well removed from it and he can fool himself, so long as he can blame others for falling into his plans. George is really a very small man, unable to grow in either direction except to fulfil his rather mundane and limited ideal of success. Those limits also keep him from being a truly wretched bad guy, too.
Of course, another problem sometimes is in keeping the villain as just that – not letting him/her/it take over to the extent they’re more attractive than Hero/Heroine! The dark side can be so much more exciting and provocative to write *lol*.
Thanks for letting me contribute!
Hey, Clare! Great comments.
I think you’ve hit on one of the key things in building a viable villain — the everyman quality. We are all a little selfish, occasionally cowardly, and we want what we want. But we control it. We yank it back hard — we fight those instincts, and that’s the difference between the average person (who is the hero in his own life) and the villains.
Oh yes! The villain that is more interesting than the hero. How many times have we all read that book! *g* I think that happens when the villain has more facets than the protag.
Ginn Hale sort of addressed that in her blog when she spoke about writing flawless female characters — characters that she identified with too closely to be able to write well. Sometimes writers can only relax when it comes to sketching out the villain. The good guys have to be paragons of virtue.
Claire
The reason I love Jake Riordan from The Adrien English series is because he is so dark and he’s a lightning rod for fans of the series.
Josh may not think of him as a villain but most female fans of the series do. He has all the characteristics of a villain without being evil.
Great comments Josh! It is a great post about why your books are so enjoyable and fascinating to read.
I’m quite happy to pay to be entertained but I also find that I like my hero/villain to be similar in merits. If one is outrageously brilliant, the other has to be. Balancing the facets and characteristics on both side to be believable but also to be similar enough it work. A brilliant but insane villain is unlikely to hitch onto the brainless but quirky cute hero. They can both be interesting and engaging but to me, it doesn’t make sense. Maybe it’s just a matter of making them both interesting in similar or different ways but always lending a common ground.
I wonder if that only makes sense in my mind.
At least in my book agreeing to have sex with somebody you are 99% sure is a serial killer goes well beyond bravery. Heroes shouldn’t be TSTL any more than villains. Just my personal opinion, of course *g*
I agree. I think in Adrien’s case he didn’t know how to get out of it without revealing too much to Bruce. He was essentially stalling for time — at least that’s how I think of it. Your mileage might vary. *g*
I’m quite happy to pay to be entertained but I also find that I like my hero/villain to be similar in merits.
Absolutely. Separate but equal. Even if the hero isn’t aware he has these hidden strengths, he must have some reserves — and the bad guy cannot be a cartoon character. Nothing triggers disbelief faster in a reader.
He has all the characteristics of a villain without being evil.
He also has many of the characteristics of a hero, which is why I think he’s more anti-hero than actual villain.
Of course some villains are merely villains by circumstance.
Josh
I do think of Jake as an anti hero, not a villain. I said he has the characteristics, not that he was a villain. I love the character because he is such a complex mix of good and bad and I want that in a protagonist. “Too good” is boring and wouldn’t hold my interest, which is why Jake is my favourite character in the AE series.
Excellent post Josh (as ever) – and thank you for mentioning the differing levels of villain, such as the nagging mother and the hurricane!
JL– And this is the single most important thing to keep in mind when writing your villains: the vast majority of villains do not understand that they are the villain.
NK– Ah, so absolutely true, a good example is those Taliban guys on motorcycles who assaulted 10-14 year old school girls with squirt guns full of acid because they… were going to school. Now we might think, “how cartoonishly evil.” And yet they probably justified that inside somehow.
Nothing turns me off a MS like a bad villain.
I never thought of Jake as a villain until I read these words you wrote in today’s posting, Josh:
The villain of your story is basically the thing standing between your protagonist and what your protagonist most desires.
and
…obstacles in the path of true love usually don’t threaten the life of the protag, but they do threaten his happiness and occasionally his sanity.
Until I read that, I thought of Jake as a tortured hero, one of the protags, and not necessarily one of the Bad Guys. Now I’m not so sure, because in ADT, THYS, and part of DOAPK, he did stand in the way of Adrien’s happiness, as I see it, and definitely threatened his sanity. Maybe it’s one of those gray areas because he has characteristics of both? Regardless, I’m with Wave: one of the reasons I love him is because he’s so complex. But you and Wave are right to call him an anti-hero. That makes more sense.
Hey Josh! Excellent post. What you say about the villains in a book makes absolut sense.
And I just wanted to say that I just finished Fatal Shadows and loved it, loved it, loved it. I think you created superb characters. Thank god it already is a series. 😉
Christian
There’s a big difference between a villian and an anti-hero. With an anti-hero he or she may be very difficult to like and may even behave in a way we associate with a villian, but by the end of the book they are redeemed in some way. With a villain, there is no redemption only punishment. Jake fits very neatly into the anti-hero role – although there are many out there who long for some punishment for Jake (not me though, I like him!).
Can I say Josh, that I loved the villain in DOAPK. Really, a stroke of genius. I don’t want to say any more and give away spoilers!
I thought Paul Kane was the worst villian in the world because he was the perfect rival. Hansome, charming and had the affections of the man Adrien wanted. He was also selfish and manipulative. He sure didn’t see himself as the bad guy, just the guy who had to do what he had to do. I hated him but totally believed in him! I still do! But I have met folks just like him in real life. They use others to get what they want, one of the women I was in competition with for several jobs was just like Paul, she wanted what she wanted. She was very successful. She didn’t see herself as the bad guy. Just those of us who watched her desimate others did. Anyway, so far JL I have believed in all of your bad guys. And I love reading about them.
Murphy
Oooh, I agree with Jenre and Murphy about DOAPK. I think I wrote of Paul:
[he] was so well done and believable as a conniving manipulator who does think he’s all that and a bag of chips.
And yes, I think he had no clue he was an truly eeebil bastard.
I have to agree that it’s important to nuance a villain so that he or she doesn’t become cartoonish, particularly in romance and mystery, (Horror has it’s own rules here because often the villain’s strangeness is the whole point of the work.)
But in most genres it’s also important not to have villains who are so nuanced and lovingly crafted that they take over the book. Ideally the most fascinating and developed character should be the protagonist.
I think this is something that Josh does very well and it’s the reason that people can love and hate the character of Jake and the reason that so many readers relate so strongly to Adrien. They are never less developed or complex than the villains they encounter.
Jessewave:
“Josh may not think of him as a villain but most female fans of the series do. He has all the characteristics of a villain without being evil.”
But that’s such perfect description! You’re right – that’s what horrifies at the same time as fascinates, is sympathetic at the time time as the behaviour is abhorrent. Jake is a tremendously fascinating character, and it’s a credit to Josh’s writing that he never slips into caricature, or overwhelms our equal-but-different fascination for Adrien.
^_^
I think it’s a whole conversation in itself, what actually *is* a villain! We love to read them, though!
and thank you for mentioning the differing levels of villain, such as the nagging mother and the hurricane!
Erastes, in that case it might be the same villain depending on how much the mother nags. *g*
Now we might think, “how cartoonishly evil.” And yet they probably justified that inside somehow.
Of course they did. Because there is no greater justification for horrendous evil than religion.
I’m not against religion, by the way, just observing what a great motivator it is for doing harm as well as good.
Nothing turns me off a MS like a bad villain.
It’s always disappointing when the villain goes flat…like the cork left out of a champagne bottle.
Aunt Lynn, the line between villain and anti-hero can be a fine one — it is a crucial one, though.
Hi Christian. Very happy you enjoyed the book! Yes, you’re coming in at the right time — still three books to go. *g*
Thanks, Jenre. The villain in DOPK was probably the most entertaining villain I’ve written. *g*
The villain in DOPK was probably the most entertaining villain I’ve written.
I meant entertaining for ME. I have no idea if anyone found him nearly as much fun as I did. *g*
He sure didn’t see himself as the bad guy, just the guy who had to do what he had to do.
Thanks, Murphy.
The thing about Paul — it doesn’t redeem him, but I think it makes him more interesting — is he does care genuinely, as best he is able, for Jake. I think it’s a fallacious notion that villains can’t love their grandchildren or their cat or the object of their romantic interest. I mean even Hitler seemed to care for Eva Braun.
But in most genres it’s also important not to have villains who are so nuanced and lovingly crafted that they take over the book. Ideally the most fascinating and developed character should be the protagonist.
Thanks, Ginn. Yes, I’ve read too many books and seen too many movies where the bad guys get all the good lines. Where the protag becomes so annoying you start to hope that eville will triumph.
I think it’s a whole conversation in itself, what actually *is* a villain! We love to read them, though!
Clare, that would be a great topic!
Terrifc post, Josh. I really enjoy reading about the creative process because, as Lynn said, it gives me a greater appreciation of what a writer goes through to achieve a book; that is what it is after all – a great achievement.
I am in total agreement with others re: the over-the-top, cartoonish villain. As a reader, I love a subtle, manipulative villian, who believes in what s/he are doing, in particular those who believe it is their right to do anything to get to the end goal. *shudders* Scary.
Because of this, I am a reader who likes their villain to be pretty well-developed by the author. I’m not talking about scenes where the villain might be talking to themselves in the dark or obsessing over their trophies, but where you can get a taste of some of his/her motivations (and not in a rubbing-hands-together-in-glee way) or as part of the build-up to the climax of the story.
I’m also a fan of when the protag is the only one who may suspect my subtle, manipulative villain. That’s why I especially liked ‘DOAPK’; some of my fave elements in a crime/mystery thriller.
BTW, I for one believe that redemption can take the form of punishment. After all, how many bad guys turn good by ‘saving’ the day jumping in front of bullets, etc.
In the case of certain characters this could take the form of being hung, drawn and quartered, taken to the four corners of the earth, burned and ashes scattered on the wind leaving the protag to wake up from his coma with no memory of the anti-hero, ready to live and find love. I think this would totally work.
In the case of certain characters this could take the form of being hung, drawn and quartered, taken to the four corners of the earth, burned and ashes scattered on the wind leaving the protag to wake up from his coma with no memory of the anti-hero, ready to live and find love. I think this would totally work.
Kris don’t you go giving Josh any ideas. Leave my Jake alone. 🙂
Gosh Wave, I wasn’t even thinking about Jake when I wrote this. But since YOU mentioned him, he does fit nicely into the redeemed through punishment role, doesn’t he??
🙂
Bad Kris.
You’re funny Kris, and subtle too. LOL
What Murphy said about Paul Kane 😛
I’ve never got so worked up over a villain… I mean, sure, I wish most villain gets what they deserve at the end, but Paul Kane is something else – he’s not only a match for Adrien in terms of intelligence, the fact that Jake cares about him at some level is extra scary for readers (until the very end when Jake couldn’t escape the ugly truth and had to make a choice). Paul Kane doesn’t “only” want to get rid of Adrien, he gets off seeing Adrien and Jake suffer over what he so carefully planned. And he does all these thinking people really give him no choice! That’s more than a pure crazy psychopath.
I wonder if the name Paul Kane would ever come up again in Book 5 – that must be some tense conversation between Adrien and Jake… like, “remember your maniac ex-boyfriend who wanted to murder me?” *g*
Loved your blog topic, Josh. I can’t stand unrealistic or too-stupid-to-live villains. It makes an ending so anticlimatic when you realize that the villain basically had no reasons for being a villain. It was great seeing you here today! 😀
P.S. I love your anti-hero Jake. He was beautifully drawn 🙂
I think this would totally work.
Laughing…
I just cannot imagine WHO you might be referring to.
I wonder if the name Paul Kane would ever come up again in Book 5 – that must be some tense conversation between Adrien and Jake… like, “remember your maniac ex-boyfriend who wanted to murder me?” *g*
The normal breakfast conversation in any household. *g*
Thanks, Mary! It was great being here today — and so nice that so many readers and writers stopped by to comment.
Wave has built one very entertaining discussion center.
Josh
The welcome mat is always out for you. I promise no more interviews, just fun.
As you can see, I have a difficult time with some of the readers who treat my blog as their 2nd home. I don’t understand how it is that Kris has been up for hours b/c it’s only now 8.30 AM (tomorrow) her time – she lives in Perth, Aus. She’s a really vicious baitch where Jake is concerned, don’t you think?
Excellent post, Josh! Villains are so difficult to do well. This is a great quick-and-dirty how-to 😀
You’re so touching in the way you take an interest in my life, Wave. *coughcowcough*
I’m sure that Josh is actually feeling very complimented by the strong feelings his characters evoke in readers. Aren’t you, Josh??
*whispers* You can pay me later. I accept free ebooks. *g*
Josh,
Great post and it’s really helpful for me since I seem to be writing more suspense stories lately. 🙂
For me as a reader, the villain should be nearly as interesting as the protag. I’m terribly disappointed when the villain is boring and dumb. If he’s stupid, why can’t the hero figure out who he is right away. Then you end up with a short story instead of a novel. 🙂
Thanks again for the great topic, Josh and Wave, you’re awesome as usual.
TA
I didn’t do anything today, awesome or otherwise. *g* I think Josh will be happy to have a day where he can work.
Kris
You’re such a delight. Really. Yes really *g*
Hands off the free books or there won’t be any left for me. 🙂
She’s a really vicious baitch where Jake is concerned, don’t you think?
Er…I think she’s just sleep deprived. VERY sleep deprived. *g*
This is a great quick-and-dirty how-to 😀
Exactly the way villains SHOULD be done. Thanks, Ally!
For me as a reader, the villain should be nearly as interesting as the protag. I’m terribly disappointed when the villain is boring and dumb. If he’s stupid, why can’t the hero figure out who he is right away. Then you end up with a short story instead of a novel. 🙂
HA. Exactly! Thanks, T.A. Good luck with the suspense stories. My favorite kind of thing.
*whispers* You can pay me later. I accept free ebooks. *g*
Hey, I didn’t give away anything, did I? I’ll have to let Wave give some books away when Mexican Heat comes out.
Great post, Josh. I’m so disappointed I missed the chance to chat about villains. I always miss the really good stuff when I decided not to boot up the computer for a day. I need to learn my lesson and just not turn the darn thing off.
What I’m not happy about, and you touched on this, is a bad guy with a mental illness, but no motivation. Just being crazy isn’t really a good reason to go around and create havoc. I’d really like to see more sound reasoning and motivation that doesn’t have anything to do with mental disease. How about good old greed?
Oh, and I love Jake and Adrien. Can’t wait for the next one.
Thanks for stopping by, Josh, and taking the time to blog for Wave. Sorry I missed it.
What do I always tell you Nadja? You snooze, you lose.:)
Hi Nadja, you’re right. Insanity has its own set of reasons — maybe they don’t make sense to the protag (or anyone else) but then murder doesn’t make sense to most of us. Killing someone for a pair of shoes doesn’t make sense to most of us, but these things happen.
Of course, fiction has to be better than real life, so we do have to push for satisfying motives.
Anyway, thanks so much for dropping by and saying hi!